Over FIFTY more Kenyans BUSTED!

Because famously no white athletes have ever been busted for doping ever. Can't name a single one. 🙄

The suspected prevalence of doping in Kenya and other African nations has a lot more to do with poor infrastructure making it difficult for domestic and international bodies to enforce the rules.

A big part of their distance running success is cultural too, and it's likely that doping has simply become part of that too. Before you get all upset, doping is a problem in US high school sport including sprinting, and our big money sports leagues famously don't have the most robust testing because... yeah...

Generally society is on drugs and our weird sense of morality about it is largely performative. PEDs have pretty much always been in sport and they never went anywhere lol

Why don't they do what they did with the Rooskies and sanction the country and let individuals plead their cases?

You didn't ask, but I prefer the male singular pronouns of he/him/his.

Paragraph 1 will be lost though on the main target, and he will continue to try and debunk genetics based on doping busts.

Is paragraph 2 hypothesis? There is no doubt that successful athletes are strategically prioritized for testing, and that more testing leads to more busts. That sequence is virtually guaranteed. The AIU tells us the Kenya is unique and unmatched in its depth of top-talent -- a pyramid of hundreds, maybe thousands, of athletes -- and that it prioritizes testing of athletes with high success at international level. Even at the same 1-2% rate of positive tests, more testing of more athletes means more busts.

Perhaps paragraph 3 was a stretch, but I just recently watched an indepth history of the American War on Drugs, and found some similarities when it comes to making moral judgements of a whole population, and calls for blanket banning the whole country.

Is your explanation for this that Western athletes are also doping? If not, aren’t you just perpetuating a myth of European genetic advantage? How else are clean Scotts and Spaniards and Norwegians beating dirty Kenyans?

I agree that Kenya is filthy but am not under the illusion they are the only ones.

Nah - It's definitely the doping.

Or maybe you are arguing for the fun of it. Your comments would apply to all athletes from all countries.

The "off" score was specifically designed to show when athletes have come "off" EPO, during the "washout" cycle before competition (so they won't test positive in their urine).

The countries ahead of Kenya were Russia, Ukraine, Turkey, Greece, Morocco, Bulgaria, Bahrain, Belarus, Slovenia, Romania, Brazil, and Spain.

Are you suggesting that these countries ranked higher due to bias from more frequent OOC testing, rather than just doping more?

Note that, with a few individual exceptions, none of these countries' athletes' performances were ever comparable to the quality of Kenya's and Ethiopia's in the distance running endurance events.

What part did I forget to mention? Looks premature speculation on your part to conclude we are looking at OOC bias compared to western athletes.

IIRC, Ethiopia was above average in 2013, but not 2011. Honestly, I can't think of any obvious reason for that. It's possible that these single event analyses have more variance with smaller sample sizes from each country, than considering all blood samples in a 12 year period.

The World Championship testing also used a different metric -- they collected ABPS metrics (more comprehensive than the off-hr scores used by the Australian scientists) for the entire population of athletes by country, and compared their cumulative distribution of ABPS values to an expected reference population distribution.

I'm not too sure how comparable these different methods are.

I was going to point out the exact same thing. This is the height of hypocrisy- to support a side that has in their founding charter to kill Jews- yet now scream racism when actual doping facts are published by Kenya itself? Truly bizarre.

Yes. You started with "maybe":

"Maybe you have cause and effect backwards: the high number of talented athletes in Kenya results in proportionally more athletes subject to more tests, and proportionally more busts."

Yes, the second half is correct, but that does neither prove that Kenya is only average in doping nor that Coevett had cause and effect backwards.

Rhetorical question? You forgot to mention that Kenya had no ooc blood tests during 2000-12, whereas other countries did. Thus a comparison of suspicious blood values of all countries is questionable, to say the least. More tests, more flags when all else is equal. That in itself is not a "premature speculation"; it would be a premature speculation to estimate corrected numbers which is why I won't do that.

But full stop. Interesting is rather your short list of only 12 countries worse than Kenya. Are you saying that even when ignoring the ooc bias, Kenya is no. 13 out of God knows how many countries? At worlds 2011 for example, 204 countries participated. Even when excepting your metrics, they'd be among the worst 6% of all those countries. Not exactly better than average.

Even though Kenyans were blood tested substantially less than say Americans and Brits (the countries mentioned above in this thread), they still got flagged more than twice as often in your selected period of 2000-12:

Russia 30%

...

Kenya 11%

...

Ethiopia 8%

...

USA 5%

UK 4%

You forgot to mention that too.

1. Calling Palestinians animals.

2. Pushing the lies about people being raped and burned alive by Hamas.

3. Ignores the fact Israel has been on a murder spree for 40 days with over 15,000 killed already.

4. You are a racist on so many levels. Old school hatred of blacks and tribal hatred of Arabs and Muslims.

5. Only argument you can make is to cry anti-semite

Going on about a charter while Israel kills 15,000 people with no end in sight.

Deranged

I was trying to come up with something to write- but you nailed it. And the lowest level of intellectually challenged don't comprehend just how stupid they are so it would do no good.

He always "forgets" what is inconvenient to his arguments.

It takes a serious nutjob to turn a thread about Kenyan doping into the war in Israel/Palestine.

If you kill 1400 civilians in their homes and at peace concerts then dance in the streets over it, you better be prepared for the repercussions. When you start something, you sure better be ready to finish it. You don’t start a fight by sucker punching someone then ask for a timeout. That’s not how it works.
Further, Israel is not founded on a principle of “kill the Palestinians” either, is it? Look, it’s quite obvious from your multiple posts that you are extremely misguided. I have a strong feeling that you’ve likely never even been to the region, let alone lived there. Hamas is your problem- it’s as simple as that.

Baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) is in a ton a foods. Cookies would be banned. I suppose they could possibly set up a threshold for bicarb limits like they once did with caffeine.

For the most part though- banned substances either change your body (act similarly to hormones or flat out are hormones), or have a strong effect on nervous system (banned in-competition stimulants… caffeine is just so common it gets a pass). Sodium bicarbonate doesn’t really change your body (it doesn't promote new red blood cell production, strongly stimulate muscle growth, etc). It just temporarily aids your ability to buffer acidity. Kind of like a nasal strip (might) aid your ability to breathe your nose. It’s potentially performance-enhancing for sure (but so are other nutritional strategies such as eating carbs or greens/beets with nitrates). You have to draw the line somewhere and there’s a reasonable difference between sodium bicarbonate (which we all have in small amounts probably every day) and injecting synthetic EPO or testosterone.

Maybe he does have it backwards. But certainly more talent leads to more success, which leads to more testing, which leads to more busts.

Maybe Kenya's depth of top-talent is from doping, but this is also unproven hypothesis.