Why the rate of single men in the US looking for dates has declined

Notice how you mentioned everything except... his personality. Curious!

In my experience as a married woman, socialising with other married people and single female friends, I can't think of any married men who are married to exceptionally attractive women, other than a couple who cheated and got divorced. Most of the women are average (I think, it varies depending on what men find attractive, since some men insist on women being unnaturally skinny out of their adolescence, which isn't really comensurate with female hormones and childbirth).

But if the question is whether these women are attractive enough to get married and have children, then the answer is yes. I don't see any of these men scrutinising a selection of women and saying "Hmmn, well, you are maybe a 6 but you're not a 7 and I think I'm a 7 or an 8 so despite you being perfect in every other way, you're out". Not past the age of 19 or outside dating apps (which are a waste of time anyway).

Men are not reliable judges of what women find attractive in men either. So many men are unattractive. I would say the majority. In the past, men tended to have physical jobs, which prevented them from becoming fat, but many young men now are overweight or the other way, too obsessed with how they look and spending hours in the gym to look a certain way. Even then, many of these gym obsessed men are downright ugly. When a gym bro boasts about his muscles, all women hear is "I'm interested in having sex with many women who I will meet every day in the gym, not being faithful". A lot of these men also don't have their careers sorted out, or have a very basic job and earn a very average wage, but for some reason think women earning more than them are desperate to marry and divorce them for their 60k pa.

Another poster also wrote about women not being worth the investment. They seem to forget that women can have children. Even in this century, its still one of the most dangerous things to life you can do. Having children is a huge investment., and measuring women in terms of 5 and 6 or whatever is a very juvenile assessment of suitability for marriage and having children. Most women would side swipe men who use those assessment terms or even who use the word "girls" for adult women, because it shows the man using it is either a complete dork or has a teenager's level of reasoning about relationships and personality traits. And thats deeply unattractive in a gym obsessed balding guy with "muscles" in his late thirties who is probably more attractive to other men than to a wide range of women interested in marriage. A lot of these men won't even talk about getting married or having children, and since most women do want either or both, they are excluding themselves from a large swathe of the female population because even when they lie about it, its obvious.

Why do you say that? It's simple supply-demand. The ratio of men to women on dating apps is 3-1 (worse in West Coast cities). That means a guy in the top 16% of attractiveness gets a woman who's average. Most guys aren't sexually attracted to the average woman in America nowadays.

This can all be explained by one thing:

s@ck and f@ck robots

My wife and I used to do match making. A few of the people we matched actually got married. Then, about 4 or 5 years ago, we noticed there were just no good men. We knew plenty of very nice, attractive young ladies. But absolutely no men that we thought were good enough

It's obvious why the poster didn't mention his personality. It's because that dude thinks that being 6'3" and owning a house IS a personality, and that it's enough for any woman to be available to him. It's obvious entitlement, one that almost guarantees that he's a bad partner and not a serious option for any long-term commitment. He probably also comes across immediately as angry and pushy.

Anyway, another day of Let's Incel. It's marginally better than Let's Stormfront, but thank God this dumb garbage gets posted slightly less.

Not a fact. I never said that. Learn to read.

Driving through - I think you are spot on, although as an older male I am by no means an expert. Men should simply work on being the best version of themselves in their 20's and 30's. Sincere, honest, hardworking, with goals and balance, and with a concern for personal health. With any amount of networking including church (which didn't work for me in any way), guys in this category will find partners. And I agree with the immature notions surrounding ranking women (or men, for that matter). What responsible men really want is someone who is kind and generous, and not insecure - of course men have to work a bit to find such a person. But the notion that they have to be a certain rank on some beauty scale is a certain way to fail. My spouse is certainly attractive, but she was even more attractive to me when I could see just how good of mother she would be. And now we have young grandchildren (three under 5) and she if an off the charts grandparent adding incredible value to the little guys lives. Makes me feel like a million bucks. Red pill types say guys do not care about how intelligent women are - that is absolutely not true - men value it especially when accompanied by a sense of humility.

Men are told over and over that they are the problem in society. Often, anything they say is liable to be taken completely out of context and they are told what racist, misogynistic, losers they are. Men's suicide rate is higher and there is a serious mental health crisis in full swing - but no one cares. And just so you know, I am a happily married man. Go ahead and hit that thumbs down, but it won't change the facts.

Do you ever get tired playing the victim?

Or the guy is probably just boring and/or unconfident and doesn't know how to seduce a woman. This idea that the idea of a man owning a house and having money is supposed to magically make a woman's panties wet is nonsense. Sorry Red/Black/Blue pillers, it just isn't really a relevant factor in seduction. It's relevant in terms of long-term mating investment, but not in the short-term. The only exception being gold-diggers who are trying to secure resources, but they aren't sexually attracted to you in that case, and those relationships tend to be pretty terrible.

Seducing a woman is more about eliciting sexual attraction by displaying cues of status. This is done by approaching, talking to a woman while speaking loudly (but not yelling) and holding eye contact, teasing (but not insulting), making her laugh, making the conversation sexual (without being inappropriate to the situation), touching (in an appropriate fashion after indicators of interest have been shown). This is what the guys who are getting laid are doing. If making tons of money and being good looking (which is extremely subjective to women anyways) was all it took, then these old rich dudes wouldn't be getting cheated on with bartenders and personal trainers.

One thing that has not been brought up here is the dramatically increasing prevalence of alternative sexual orientations which is almost entirely due to an increase in women, while the prevalence of alternative sexual orientations in men has remained almost constant over time. In Short, more women are choosing women as partners, while the number of men choosing men has not changed.. i cant imagine they are making this choice because they will only accept someone who is 6 feet tall.

FWIW i have never found dating to be so barren, despite not being 6’3” or making $400k

Initiators? Umm, ever heard of sexual harassment (SH) in this day & age, because every other guy has. Guys are so spooked as to how to act around women because of the SH threat everywhere.

If someone doesn't know the difference between flirting/being cordial with a woman and sexual assault or harrassment, then I don't know what to tell you other than go to apps, where intention of both parties is obvious. I know a lot of people are hating on the apps, but this is where they are quite useful.

Everyone can discuss why this or why that -- but this all started with the pill and then women returning to work in the '70s/80s. Everything else cascades from that. BTW, these two factors are not bad things -- both are remarkable. But the question was always going to be, how do we react to these changes? And here we are.

Bullsht. The only people who are worried about that are dudes who are creepy and have zero recognition or awareness.

"Making the conversation sexual" too soon is the no 1 reason that women reject and block men by far. So go ahead if you want multiple rejections from the majority of l women, who will think you are a low class sex crazed redneck who wants to get laid on a ONS with crazy, desperate women.

Don't "make the conversation sexual" with women you hardly know. Does the conversation have to be sexual at all? At the appropriate point, you kind of move beyond conversation. What you really need to do is to make a woman feel comfortable. You don't do that by talking about sex graphically.

However, if you are talking about men seducing other men, then this is correct advice.

Hmm OK, thank you for your reasonable response! I do agree that something has gone wrong somewhere. Both men and women seem unhappy with the state of dating.

I don't really like the dating apps.

My personal view is that anyone can write anything on there - it doesn't have to be accurate so the bios are generally fairly worthless. At that point you're just going on a photo. I just don't really like the whole dynamic of how the apps work. It feels like you're marketing yourself and so on. Having said that, I've had some good dates from apps so I suppose it isn't all bad. I also had some shocking dates.

As a woman, I don't like it when women expect men to pay for everything. People want to be treated equally so this completely flies in the face of that.