SoCal is by far the best place to train in the United States; I lived in SoCal for three years and it was 70 degrees and sunny most days. If it rains, it's never a storm. Plus, zero ice. You couldn't ask for a better training climate; plus, if these kids are out in the burbs somewhere is pretty safe to train or run through affluent neighborhoods in the early morning or even late at night. I mean, I get it's not altitude, so not CO or UT but still..it's ideal weather.
True. But Nico Young made a big jump in college. I expect that most of his runners did. That means he got them to a normal level in HS. They were just way more talented than the competition. And none of it really matters because Brosnan is done coaching. He is not good at some parts of the job.
Well hopefully he can make it happen again. I’m more impressed with the coaches with longevity which in fairness maybe he build that resume.
Only problems about trying to be a pro coach is all the good people are already on teams and there aren’t that many outstanding pros out there.
If you were one of the good ones as you call them WHY would I want to be coached by SB? Ok so he was a good HS coach with a special group. That in no way means anything on the pro level. If I was a runner with WC or Olympic hopes there is no way I would trust my future to such an unproven coach
True. But Nico Young made a big jump in college. I expect that most of his runners did. That means he got them to a normal level in HS. They were just way more talented than the competition. And none of it really matters because Brosnan is done coaching. He is not good at some parts of the job.
Just like almost all big time high school programs, some former NP runners did well in college and some didn't. I'm not sure if this is any indictment on the high school coach, but I think Nico is the only one that really maintained near his level compared to his high school competitors. What I mean is, Nico was at the top of his class in high school and has maintained his position and met expectations based on how he performed in high school.
Here's a list of the top kids Brosnan coached and how they fared in college vs high school.
The Young twins: too early to judge, but first race was underwhelming compared with their level of high school dominance. We'll find out more soon.
Aaron Sahlman: probably too early to tell and maybe he's hurt, but ouch! First race was a clunker and he didn't race the next one.
Colin Sahlman: Considering he was thought of as one of the best high school recruits ever, not meeting expectations. Not a total dud, but also not what you'd expect from one of the absolute all time great high school runners.
Jace Aschbrenner: for an 8:44 3200 runner who finished 18th at NXN, not a very good college career. Had a couple of OK performances, but can't make the varsity at a mediocre Colorado team. Several of his CA competitors on his team who were not nearly the recruit he was have passed him.
Ethan Ronk: Ran one race at Belmont (4:40 mile), then disappeared.
Daniel Appleford: Has run one XC race at Colorado School of Mines in 2 years and no other results. Injured? Done running?
Nicholas Goldstein: ran 14:47 5k in track at NP and 14:39 5k at Furman. Not a disaster, but running pretty much the same.
Hector Martinez: 9:10 3200 as junior and never heard from again.
Christian Simone: top NP finisher at the RunningLane National Championship in 2020 and never ran another race.
Thomas McDonnell: possibly the biggest success or jump from high school. Ran 9:27 at NP, but has run 14:50 at Cal Poly Pomona.
True. But Nico Young made a big jump in college. I expect that most of his runners did. That means he got them to a normal level in HS. They were just way more talented than the competition. And none of it really matters because Brosnan is done coaching. He is not good at some parts of the job.
Just like almost all big time high school programs, some former NP runners did well in college and some didn't. I'm not sure if this is any indictment on the high school coach, but I think Nico is the only one that really maintained near his level compared to his high school competitors. What I mean is, Nico was at the top of his class in high school and has maintained his position and met expectations based on how he performed in high school.
Here's a list of the top kids Brosnan coached and how they fared in college vs high school.
The Young twins: too early to judge, but first race was underwhelming compared with their level of high school dominance. We'll find out more soon.
Aaron Sahlman: probably too early to tell and maybe he's hurt, but ouch! First race was a clunker and he didn't race the next one.
Colin Sahlman: Considering he was thought of as one of the best high school recruits ever, not meeting expectations. Not a total dud, but also not what you'd expect from one of the absolute all time great high school runners.
Jace Aschbrenner: for an 8:44 3200 runner who finished 18th at NXN, not a very good college career. Had a couple of OK performances, but can't make the varsity at a mediocre Colorado team. Several of his CA competitors on his team who were not nearly the recruit he was have passed him.
Ethan Ronk: Ran one race at Belmont (4:40 mile), then disappeared.
Daniel Appleford: Has run one XC race at Colorado School of Mines in 2 years and no other results. Injured? Done running?
Nicholas Goldstein: ran 14:47 5k in track at NP and 14:39 5k at Furman. Not a disaster, but running pretty much the same.
Hector Martinez: 9:10 3200 as junior and never heard from again.
Christian Simone: top NP finisher at the RunningLane National Championship in 2020 and never ran another race.
Thomas McDonnell: possibly the biggest success or jump from high school. Ran 9:27 at NP, but has run 14:50 at Cal Poly Pomona.
I saw in another thread that Martinez moved out of the NP district his senior year
True. But Nico Young made a big jump in college. I expect that most of his runners did. That means he got them to a normal level in HS. They were just way more talented than the competition. And none of it really matters because Brosnan is done coaching. He is not good at some parts of the job.
Just like almost all big time high school programs, some former NP runners did well in college and some didn't. I'm not sure if this is any indictment on the high school coach, but I think Nico is the only one that really maintained near his level compared to his high school competitors. What I mean is, Nico was at the top of his class in high school and has maintained his position and met expectations based on how he performed in high school.
Here's a list of the top kids Brosnan coached and how they fared in college vs high school.
The Young twins: too early to judge, but first race was underwhelming compared with their level of high school dominance. We'll find out more soon.
Aaron Sahlman: probably too early to tell and maybe he's hurt, but ouch! First race was a clunker and he didn't race the next one.
Colin Sahlman: Considering he was thought of as one of the best high school recruits ever, not meeting expectations. Not a total dud, but also not what you'd expect from one of the absolute all time great high school runners.
Jace Aschbrenner: for an 8:44 3200 runner who finished 18th at NXN, not a very good college career. Had a couple of OK performances, but can't make the varsity at a mediocre Colorado team. Several of his CA competitors on his team who were not nearly the recruit he was have passed him.
Ethan Ronk: Ran one race at Belmont (4:40 mile), then disappeared.
Daniel Appleford: Has run one XC race at Colorado School of Mines in 2 years and no other results. Injured? Done running?
Nicholas Goldstein: ran 14:47 5k in track at NP and 14:39 5k at Furman. Not a disaster, but running pretty much the same.
Hector Martinez: 9:10 3200 as junior and never heard from again.
Christian Simone: top NP finisher at the RunningLane National Championship in 2020 and never ran another race.
Thomas McDonnell: possibly the biggest success or jump from high school. Ran 9:27 at NP, but has run 14:50 at Cal Poly Pomona.
This is misleading for their top guys. Moreover, you could say that he was maximizing his athletes on college training and that college coaches didn't do as good a job with them. Or you could say that the top guys continue to improve in college whereas the lower guys don't because the latter were pushed to their max in training to keep up with the top guys, whereas the top guys weren't. At any rate, the characterization of Aschbrenner, Sahlmans, and Youngs is overly pessimistic.
Jace Aschbrenner ran 8:44 in a time trial with Nico Young pacing him. At Colorado, he has had 1-2 good races a year and been quite inconsistent. However, he ran 13:52i in 2022, 28:46 10000m at Stanford this year, and 23:36 8k at Pac-12 Champs in 2021, all major improvements from high school. Considering he started competing for Colorado in 2021, he came in ready to contribute after just a semester of training there. What's happened since you would in any case attribute to his college coach not him. However, this is a major success. How many hs have ever graduated a future 28:46 guy?
Aaron Sahlman, the surprise NXN champ and 1:48/8:03 junior, seemed to be out on his own after ending his hs eligibility and when he tore his IT Band, he kept racing--with no coaches approving of that--so it's not exactly surprising that he is going to be redshirted. I hope he makes it back. He'll have to listen to Mike Smith and buy into the team first atmosphere at NAU if he wants to make a contribution.
Colin Sahlman had one very good xc 10k last year at West Regionals and a very good track season. He ran 1:48 low in hs and 3:56 mile. As a freshman in college, he already ran 1:46.99, 3:38.30, and 13:42. (13:42 is slower than we'd expect but it is a good time). His 8k best is actually virtually identical to Aschbrenner's, but he ran 28:33.9 10k xc. Most frosh can't run two really good 10k xc races in consecutive weeks either. His 8/15 combo was among the best in the NCAAs.
Lex/Leo Young They ran their first meet conservatively but there is no indication that they're not handling the transition well. If I were them, however, I wouldn't annoy my older teammates by sticking a camera in their face all the time. I expect they will contribute significantly after Leo ran 3:38 and 16th at World Jr. xc.
Just like almost all big time high school programs, some former NP runners did well in college and some didn't. I'm not sure if this is any indictment on the high school coach, but I think Nico is the only one that really maintained near his level compared to his high school competitors. What I mean is, Nico was at the top of his class in high school and has maintained his position and met expectations based on how he performed in high school.
Here's a list of the top kids Brosnan coached and how they fared in college vs high school.
The Young twins: too early to judge, but first race was underwhelming compared with their level of high school dominance. We'll find out more soon.
Aaron Sahlman: probably too early to tell and maybe he's hurt, but ouch! First race was a clunker and he didn't race the next one.
Colin Sahlman: Considering he was thought of as one of the best high school recruits ever, not meeting expectations. Not a total dud, but also not what you'd expect from one of the absolute all time great high school runners.
Jace Aschbrenner: for an 8:44 3200 runner who finished 18th at NXN, not a very good college career. Had a couple of OK performances, but can't make the varsity at a mediocre Colorado team. Several of his CA competitors on his team who were not nearly the recruit he was have passed him.
Ethan Ronk: Ran one race at Belmont (4:40 mile), then disappeared.
Daniel Appleford: Has run one XC race at Colorado School of Mines in 2 years and no other results. Injured? Done running?
Nicholas Goldstein: ran 14:47 5k in track at NP and 14:39 5k at Furman. Not a disaster, but running pretty much the same.
Hector Martinez: 9:10 3200 as junior and never heard from again.
Christian Simone: top NP finisher at the RunningLane National Championship in 2020 and never ran another race.
Thomas McDonnell: possibly the biggest success or jump from high school. Ran 9:27 at NP, but has run 14:50 at Cal Poly Pomona.
This is misleading for their top guys. Moreover, you could say that he was maximizing his athletes on college training and that college coaches didn't do as good a job with them. Or you could say that the top guys continue to improve in college whereas the lower guys don't because the latter were pushed to their max in training to keep up with the top guys, whereas the top guys weren't. At any rate, the characterization of Aschbrenner, Sahlmans, and Youngs is overly pessimistic.
Jace Aschbrenner ran 8:44 in a time trial with Nico Young pacing him. At Colorado, he has had 1-2 good races a year and been quite inconsistent. However, he ran 13:52i in 2022, 28:46 10000m at Stanford this year, and 23:36 8k at Pac-12 Champs in 2021, all major improvements from high school. Considering he started competing for Colorado in 2021, he came in ready to contribute after just a semester of training there. What's happened since you would in any case attribute to his college coach not him. However, this is a major success. How many hs have ever graduated a future 28:46 guy?
Aaron Sahlman, the surprise NXN champ and 1:48/8:03 junior, seemed to be out on his own after ending his hs eligibility and when he tore his IT Band, he kept racing--with no coaches approving of that--so it's not exactly surprising that he is going to be redshirted. I hope he makes it back. He'll have to listen to Mike Smith and buy into the team first atmosphere at NAU if he wants to make a contribution.
Colin Sahlman had one very good xc 10k last year at West Regionals and a very good track season. He ran 1:48 low in hs and 3:56 mile. As a freshman in college, he already ran 1:46.99, 3:38.30, and 13:42. (13:42 is slower than we'd expect but it is a good time). His 8k best is actually virtually identical to Aschbrenner's, but he ran 28:33.9 10k xc. Most frosh can't run two really good 10k xc races in consecutive weeks either. His 8/15 combo was among the best in the NCAAs.
Lex/Leo Young They ran their first meet conservatively but there is no indication that they're not handling the transition well. If I were them, however, I wouldn't annoy my older teammates by sticking a camera in their face all the time. I expect they will contribute significantly after Leo ran 3:38 and 16th at World Jr. xc.
As I said, I'm not saying it is any indication of Brosnan's coaching. Also, don't get me wrong, these guys are all good college runners, but it's fair to compare them to how dominant they are in college vs how dominant they were in high school. Colin S is a great example. He was considered by many to be literally one of the greatest high school runners of all time. Look at the success some of the other greats have had in their freshman year, like Bob Kennedy, Ritz, Chez and even Nico to some extent. Colin did not live up to that level of dominance. He's good, but not at that level, so you can argue he hasn't lived up to expectations.
For Aschbrenner's case, he's not a bad college runner, but most of the 8:44 kids have performed much better.
The twins did fine in their first race, but as you pointed out, Leo ran 3:38 and 16th at Worlds, which as dominant for a high schooler. Nico pushed Connor Mantz to his limit in his very first race. The twins were not at that level in their first meet. There were several true freshmen that were better early this season who the twins were better in high school. Who knows, maybe they will progress quickly, but as of now, they haven't shown they are at the level Nico was as a freshman.
For Aschbrenner's case, he's not a bad college runner, but most of the 8:44 kids have performed much better.
The twins did fine in their first race, but as you pointed out, Leo ran 3:38 and 16th at Worlds, which as dominant for a high schooler. Nico pushed Connor Mantz to his limit in his very first race. The twins were not at that level in their first meet. There were several true freshmen that were better early this season who the twins were better in high school. Who knows, maybe they will progress quickly, but as of now, they haven't shown they are at the level Nico was as a freshman.
Aschberger is sort of right where you expect. Some of the kids in that group improve to be 13:20 runners. But most are 13:40 type runners. Or worse. If you back through the list of kids that ran like 8:50 2 miles, there are a lot of recognizable names. And a lot that did nothing.
drawing conclusions from 1 Xcode race is pushing it. Let’s see where they are at the end of the season.
I would have thought he'd be competitive as a freshman in xc as Nico Young, Bob Kennedy, and Dathan Ritzenhein as well, but he wasn't. However, on the track, he was superior to their lifetime bests at 800/1500, with the exception of Nico's 1500 (.55 better). I recall BK as winning the NCAA 1500m as a freshman as well as xc. I may be wrong, but in any case Sahlman beat his lifetime best as a freshman. How many Americans have run better than 3:38.30 or 1:46.99 at his age (he is 19, turning 20 October 28 (2003))? Just a few in the 1500, including Ryun, Webb, Nico, Hobbs, ...? A good number in the 800, including Granville, Brazier, Ryun, the Ole Miss guy, the NCAA 800 champ, and probably quite a few college freshmen. How many have beaten both times at 19? Jim Ryun and ...?
Dathan 3:42.99 2002
Bob Kennedy 1500 Metres 3:38.32 Hengelo (NED) 25 JUN 1991 1129
Everyone wants to see results right now. With some guys, great results take a little longer. Have some patience. Pretty much all of these guys have raced once this season.
I would have thought he'd be competitive as a freshman in xc as Nico Young, Bob Kennedy, and Dathan Ritzenhein as well, but he wasn't. However, on the track, he was superior to their lifetime bests at 800/1500, with the exception of Nico's 1500 (.55 better). I recall BK as winning the NCAA 1500m as a freshman as well as xc. I may be wrong, but in any case Sahlman beat his lifetime best as a freshman. How many Americans have run better than 3:38.30 or 1:46.99 at his age (he is 19, turning 20 October 28 (2003))? Just a few in the 1500, including Ryun, Webb, Nico, Hobbs, ...? A good number in the 800, including Granville, Brazier, Ryun, the Ole Miss guy, the NCAA 800 champ, and probably quite a few college freshmen. How many have beaten both times at 19? Jim Ryun and ...?
Dathan 3:42.99 2002
Bob Kennedy 1500 Metres 3:38.32 Hengelo (NED) 25 JUN 1991 1129
Nico Young 3:37.75 at 19 in 2022.
Time comparisons aren't really valid with the advent of super shoes and how much faster everyone is running now. How did he do compared to the current competition? Not to beat a dead horse, but he's good, just not what you expect from arguably one of the best ever.
Everyone wants to see results right now. With some guys, great results take a little longer. Have some patience. Pretty much all of these guys have raced once this season.
Of course things may change, but as of today with the info we have, my assessment is fair.
This guy has coached so many kids to phenomenal times….anyone who claims he is not a great coach is just an idiot….very few elite hs coaches have ever accomplished these results….it’s like we are trying to convince one another he wasn’t a good coach because his kids didn’t go on to beat Jacob Ingebrigtsen after he stopped coaching them. What he did for high school running is why we have had the best HS results in XC and track for the last 5-7yrs in history. Job well done so can we find this guy a job.
You have it backward. The worse that is runners do in college and after, the better coach he was. That's why I pointed out how good Nico is. Brosnan is a good coach but not better than other good coaches.
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