Beyond the extreme record-breakers, how do you guys determine who's clean and dirty? What about the less-talented white runners who are still running very fast... not just Inge, but Muir, Wightman, etc. At some point, to make these judgments, don't you have to draw a performance line -- maybe one for white runners and one for East Africans raised at altitude -- as to what's considered clean or dirty?
For example, is any sub-12:50 performance dirty? Or is the line sub-12:45? Sub-12:40?
For example, is any sub-12:50 performance dirty? Or is the line sub-12:45? Sub-12:40?
Your guess is as good as mine. I go with
Sub-12:50: 100% dirty
12:51-13:00: 90% dirty
13:01-13:10: 75% dirty
13:11-13:20: 50% dirty
...
Extra for Coevett: no, that does not mean that "everyone is doping".
Given that David Moorcroft solo ran 13 flat nearly half a century ago, and was only a 5000m runner because he couldn't get into the 1500 GB team, I find it hard to believe that 12:50 is the cut off in 2023.
Extra for Coevett: no, that does not mean that "everyone is doping".
Given that David Moorcroft solo ran 13 flat nearly half a century ago, and was only a 5000m runner because he couldn't get into the 1500 GB team, I find it hard to believe that 12:50 is the cut off in 2023.
I understand that he is a Brit so that makes him undoubltely clean in your eyes but there is no reason to believe everybody was clean in the 80's. Cycling was dirty already in the 60s.
It can’t happen soon enough. Obvious dopers crushing records is terrible for the sport and massively incentivizes cheating among the other competitors who don’t yet dope to dope.
This performance is the equivalent to taking 0.3 seconds off the 100m world record.
I'm just tired of the doping arguments. Look at it as entertainment now. So, if you went to see a band like The Doors, or Led Zeppelin or the Rolling Stones, or even John Coltrane or Miles Davis, would it really matter they were on drugs. It's just a show. Watch it if you want, if you don't, walk away.
Boo hoo she ran the equivalent to her 1500m time. Women's running has lacked depth forever lmao it makes sense a star like this is emerging. America would probably have an AR faster than 4:16 if we had a semi decent youth club system and if all the money wasn't in other sports. Or if there was money in any women's sports at all. Or if there was a culture of female distance running before like 1980 lmao. Cry harder but this doesn't surprise me at all.
OK, let's assume Kipyegon is clean. Then what times would she run on drugs?
You're right to pick these two as they have produced two of the most off the charts times this year. Kipyegon has taken over a second a lap off the mile WR! It's the equivalent of a man running a mile in 3.39. Ludicrous.
I understand that he is a Brit so that makes him undoubltely clean in your eyes but there is no reason to believe everybody was clean in the 80's. Cycling was dirty already in the 60s.
The 80s clean, lol that's a cute thought. But let's look at the data:
5000 m best times per decade 60s: 13:16.6 70s: 13:12.9: – 4s 80s: 12:58.39: – 15s lol what a jump 90s: 12:39.36: – 19 s lol it's getting better 00s: 12:37.35: – 2s 10s: 12:43.02: +6 s – lolol no more talents eh? (20s: 12:35.36 or faster thanks to superspikes)
I rarely accuse athletes of doping, but this is just about the most ridiculous thing I have seen since Wang Junxia and Florence Griffith Joyner.
Sifan Hassan accomplished one of the most incredible triples in history only two years ago in Tokyo and holds 3 of the top-5 times in history, and Kipyegon just ran FIVE SECONDS faster than Hassan has ever run? FIVE SECONDS faster than anybody has ever run? Let's not forget she had a child only a couple years ago, too.
Look at the 1500 list. Kipyegon has 7 of the top-14 times in history. Who else is in the top-14? Qu Yunxia (Ma's Army), Jiang Bo (Ma's Army), Lang Yinglai (Ma's Army), Wang Junxia (Ma's Army), Tatyana Kazankina (80s Soviet Union), Sifan Hassan (arguably the greatest ever), and Genzebe Dibaba. And yet she DOMINATES them. Not even some of the most drugged up athletes in history can compete.
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