The secrets of double threshold training are revealed. From Norway to Flagstaff: How Double Threshold Training Is Taking Over the World

running is in the stone age wrote:

I agree that running is moving away from that mentality (as shown with the double threshold days) but its still far from the norm and late to the party.

Perhaps "targeted" cross training is a better phrase. I'm talking getting on the bike with specific workouts targeting stuff like threshold, aerobic, VO2, max output.

As you said, running is weight bearing and therfore limits total volume and quality. Cycling, triathlon, swimming get in 20-30 hrs per week while us runners max out at 11 or 12. By doing something like cycling you can spend a lot more time in each training zone without risk of injury. This improves cardiac output, recovery ability, power, lean muscle mass, etc.

Link:velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-train...

This guy used the bike to build a massive aerobic base that made him unstoppable. If 30+ hrs/week of aerobic training is useful for a 12 minute race imagine what it could do for a marathon?

Its a theory, but it just seems to me a lot is left on the table. It's proven that our bodies can handle significantly more stimulus than pure running can offer.

ItalianJob wrote:

The double threshold system clearly works, but in every article I can find online there's no mention to the transition part to the track, i.e., the last weeks of which Gjert and Jakob were talking about when approaching race season.

I obviosuly get that in precompetitive and competitive phase the amount of double threshold and the overall threshold volume goes down, but how is that replaced? How do they transition from their aerobic buildup to the track season. They maintain the 1500m speed with a speed development session on Monday and with those hills, but how does a precompetitive week look? Because I get that they probably do 300s, 400s at race pace, but it's too generic in my opinion. In other words, in every single article about double threshold we don't have the icing on the cake, which is very important if someone doesn't want to mess it all.

And another thing to understand for athletes who can't handle high mileage, is whether the double threshold session may be replaced with an equivalent one on the boost or on the elliptical to get the same benefit without running 18 or more km per week

Appreciation?? wrote:

ItalianJob wrote:

The double threshold system clearly works, but in every article I can find online there's no mention to the transition part to the track, i.e., the last weeks of which Gjert and Jakob were talking about when approaching race season.

I obviosuly get that in precompetitive and competitive phase the amount of double threshold and the overall threshold volume goes down, but how is that replaced? How do they transition from their aerobic buildup to the track season. They maintain the 1500m speed with a speed development session on Monday and with those hills, but how does a precompetitive week look? Because I get that they probably do 300s, 400s at race pace, but it's too generic in my opinion. In other words, in every single article about double threshold we don't have the icing on the cake, which is very important if someone doesn't want to mess it all.

And another thing to understand for athletes who can't handle high mileage, is whether the double threshold session may be replaced with an equivalent one on the boost or on the elliptical to get the same benefit without running 18 or more km per week

I thought Gjert said they mainly use track races as their track work during the season and continue to work on threshold. Go to 3:00 in the video below:

Video:www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pxsMLaTIg8

Appreciation?? wrote:

ItalianJob wrote:

The double threshold system clearly works, but in every article I can find online there's no mention to the transition part to the track, i.e., the last weeks of which Gjert and Jakob were talking about when approaching race season.

I obviosuly get that in precompetitive and competitive phase the amount of double threshold and the overall threshold volume goes down, but how is that replaced? How do they transition from their aerobic buildup to the track season. They maintain the 1500m speed with a speed development session on Monday and with those hills, but how does a precompetitive week look? Because I get that they probably do 300s, 400s at race pace, but it's too generic in my opinion. In other words, in every single article about double threshold we don't have the icing on the cake, which is very important if someone doesn't want to mess it all.

And another thing to understand for athletes who can't handle high mileage, is whether the double threshold session may be replaced with an equivalent one on the boost or on the elliptical to get the same benefit without running 18 or more km per week

I thought Gjert said they mainly use track races as their track work during the season and continue to work on threshold. Go to 3:00 in the video below:

Video:www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pxsMLaTIg8

Tribe wrote:

In the late 1990s Bill Dellinger served as the interim head distance coach for 6months at Wake Forest while they were recruiting a new coach. I got to see his “Oregon System” which I presume had been in place for decades. It consisted of 2 workouts a day every Tuesday and Thursday and a race or single hard session on Saturday. The workouts were shorter but more intense than the double threshold stuff but still the same principal. Here’s the breakdown:

Tuesday am - Oregon drill - 3 x 1000m done easy (3:30), medium (3:00) and hard (2:40) - these times are rough estimates for what the avg runner was hitting (mostly 14:20 ish runners). Rest between intervals consisted of 10x 100m strides done easy, medium hard with 10s between strides.

Tuesday pm - 4000m continuous running alternating 400m at 5 k race pace with 200m at tempo (a variant of the old pre workout)

Thursday am: Oregon drill

Thursday pm: 2400m continuous running alternating 300m at just below mile pace with 100m at just below tempo pace (ended up running ~5k pace for the 2400m)

Saturday: race or more traditional intervals.

The wake guys improved massively with this training. They ended up with three guys running under or close to 4min and finished 7th in XC the next year.

I’m pretty sure this training was what Dellinger used in the glory days of Salazar, Prefontain etc at Oregon. Maybe this was the dawn of the two workouts a day philosophy.