Do you really care this much about one division of girl's discus in Connecticut?
Yes.
Because I care about the marginalization of XX humans in every sporting context, everywhere, always.
I care because Kelly Aspras, of Foran High School, is NOT a State Champion. She should be. She earned it.
I care because Allicea Wright, of Hillhouse High School, did NOT score a point in the State Championship, or get to stand on the podium with a medal. She should have. She earned it.
I care because the girls from East Lyme did NOT finish third in the team standings. They should have. They earned it.
I have no intention of stopping the use of the terms XX and XY.
My intention is to make the argument as simple as possible without offending anyone who identifies as male or female.
Whether you intend or not, you are offending every person with 46XY DSD who identifies as woman. (And many of them have been socially accepted as woman since birth.)
You are shouting very loudly every single time "You are entirely irrelevant because you happen to have rare medical conditions." How would YOU feel if you were treated that way?
DSD athletes are a completely separate issue in the sporting context and can be discussed in a different thread.
...people who feel wrong enough being male that they'll go through medical transition to be as close to female as possible, or are working toward doing so...
Honest question--in the instances of transgender athletes competing in HS and collegiate sports, is there confirmation that the transgender athlete has indeed transitioned or is fully in the process? Is it possible for a guy to claim to be transitioning and allowed to compete in the women's division even though he has taken no steps to actually transition?
Do you really care this much about one division of girl's discus in Connecticut?
Yes.
Because I care about the marginalization of XX humans in every sporting context, everywhere, always.
I care because Kelly Aspras, of Foran High School, is NOT a State Champion. She should be. She earned it.
I care because Allicea Wright, of Hillhouse High School, did NOT score a point in the State Championship, or get to stand on the podium with a medal. She should have. She earned it.
I care because the girls from East Lyme did NOT finish third in the team standings. They should have. They earned it.
Man.
This is especially a shame for Hillhouse High School. Anyone familiar with CT running knows Hillhouse, located in DT New Haven, doesn't play when it comes to track and field. They pride themselves on the amazing and deep teams they put forward.
Madison is a school with rich kids who frolick around on their private beaches. Thats not to say some of them don't work hard in track, I'm sure some did. But if progressives wanted to look at optics in this situation, I'd look at it from this angle too.
...people who feel wrong enough being male that they'll go through medical transition to be as close to female as possible, or are working toward doing so...
Honest question--in the instances of transgender athletes competing in HS and collegiate sports, is there confirmation that the transgender athlete has indeed transitioned or is fully in the process? Is it possible for a guy to claim to be transitioning and allowed to compete in the women's division even though he has taken no steps to actually transition?
At the high school level an athlete can essentially choose their gender and compete without undergoing any transition process that would include medical procedures, hormone therapy, etc.
An XY human competing with XX humans in high school is likely to be getting the benefit of going through puberty as an XY human (fully benefitting from testosterone in the system, just like any boy becoming a man).
Whether you intend or not, you are offending every person with 46XY DSD who identifies as woman. (And many of them have been socially accepted as woman since birth.)
You are shouting very loudly every single time "You are entirely irrelevant because you happen to have rare medical conditions." How would YOU feel if you were treated that way?
DSD athletes are a completely separate issue in the sporting context and can be discussed in a different thread.
It is a separate issue. But you are dehumanizing DSD athletes every single time you write XX and XY.
Honest question--in the instances of transgender athletes competing in HS and collegiate sports, is there confirmation that the transgender athlete has indeed transitioned or is fully in the process? Is it possible for a guy to claim to be transitioning and allowed to compete in the women's division even though he has taken no steps to actually transition?
At the high school level an athlete can essentially choose their gender and compete without undergoing any transition process that would include medical procedures, hormone therapy, etc.
An XY human competing with XX humans in high school is likely to be getting the benefit of going through puberty as an XY human (fully benefitting from testosterone in the system, just like any boy becoming a man).
This is only true in about 15 states in the country. About 20 states have completely banned trans females from HS sports. About 15 others have some restrictions based on hormone replacement therapy and other medical procedures.
DSD athletes are a completely separate issue in the sporting context and can be discussed in a different thread.
It is a separate issue. But you are dehumanizing DSD athletes every single time you write XX and XY.
No, I'm not.
If you want to discuss "How to handle participation of DSD athletes in sports?" go ahead and start a thread on that.
In almost every case that we discuss here, with trans girls and women participating in girls' and women's sports, it is about an XY human competing with XX humans and DSD is not an issue.
It is brought up, however, as an attempt to muddy the water.
It is a separate issue. But you are dehumanizing DSD athletes every single time you write XX and XY.
No, I'm not.
If you want to discuss "How to handle participation of DSD athletes in sports?" go ahead and start a thread on that.
In almost every case that we discuss here, with trans girls and women participating in girls' and women's sports, it is about an XY human competing with XX humans and DSD is not an issue.
It is brought up, however, as an attempt to muddy the water.
Transgender issue is NOT about XX and XY. There are people with XY who are assigned female at birth and there are people with XX who are assigned male at birth.
You cannot pretend those people did not exist just because you want to.
Whether you have the intent to dehumanize does not matter. It IS dehumanizing.
So now pointing out that actual girls have gotten the short end of the stick in their own sporting category is marginalizing trans people? Perhaps people wouldn’t be bent out of shape over this if it didn’t defy common sense, go against scientific consensus, and violate any norm of fairness upon which athletics is supposed to operate.
So now pointing out that actual girls have gotten the short end of the stick in their own sporting category is marginalizing trans people? Perhaps people wouldn’t be bent out of shape over this if it didn’t defy common sense, go against scientific consensus, and violate any norm of fairness upon which athletics is supposed to operate.
Caring about cis girls who are displaced on the podium is NOT transphobic.
Demonizing trans youths as fraudsters and predators IS transphobic.
If you want to discuss "How to handle participation of DSD athletes in sports?" go ahead and start a thread on that.
In almost every case that we discuss here, with trans girls and women participating in girls' and women's sports, it is about an XY human competing with XX humans and DSD is not an issue.
It is brought up, however, as an attempt to muddy the water.
Transgender issue is NOT about XX and XY. There are people with XY who are assigned female at birth and there are people with XX who are assigned male at birth.
You cannot pretend those people did not exist just because you want to.
Whether you have the intent to dehumanize does not matter. It IS dehumanizing.
The trans-in-sports issue is OVERWHELMINGLY about XX humans participating in XY sports.
Talking about extremely rare conditions (that can be handled separately) is an attempt to obfuscate and is, in my opinion, a cheap way to use people with biological abnormalities as a shield.
I think you are dehumanizing people by trying to hide behind them.
Fine. Human sex is not simple. But I do think in the context of sports most of these situations are.
Lia Thomas competed in the men's division where, as William Thomas, he was competitive against men. She became dominant against women.
This happened in CT before with Andraya Yearwood and Terry Miller. AMAB or biological boys, they dominated girls track. There wasn't anything that complex about it.
I am not talking about any of those trans athletes.
Are you willing to tell Dr. Martinez Patino "You are not a woman. You should not have been allowed to compete"?
All I am asking is to stop using "XX" and "XY" as if there were only two karyotypes, and every woman has XX and every man has XY. Is that too much to ask?
If YOU happen to belong to a very small minority group, how would you feel that people pretend as if you had never existed on this planet?
Just stop. You're using the existence of a rare sexual development disorder to pretend that sexual dimorphism in humans isn't a fact. And this is simply a tactic to bait people into saying something factual but allegedly "problematic" about people with DSDs.
You're engaged in a political maneuver, not an argument.
If you want to discuss "How to handle participation of DSD athletes in sports?" go ahead and start a thread on that.
In almost every case that we discuss here, with trans girls and women participating in girls' and women's sports, it is about an XY human competing with XX humans and DSD is not an issue.
It is brought up, however, as an attempt to muddy the water.
Transgender issue is NOT about XX and XY. There are people with XY who are assigned female at birth and there are people with XX who are assigned male at birth.
You cannot pretend those people did not exist just because you want to.
Whether you have the intent to dehumanize does not matter. It IS dehumanizing.
...people who feel wrong enough being male that they'll go through medical transition to be as close to female as possible, or are working toward doing so...
Honest question--in the instances of transgender athletes competing in HS and collegiate sports, is there confirmation that the transgender athlete has indeed transitioned or is fully in the process? Is it possible for a guy to claim to be transitioning and allowed to compete in the women's division even though he has taken no steps to actually transition?
Not HS or college, but here's a great example in cycling:
The trans-in-sports issue is OVERWHELMINGLY about XX humans participating in XY sports.
Talking about extremely rare conditions (that can be handled separately) is an attempt to obfuscate and is, in my opinion, a cheap way to use people with biological abnormalities as a shield.
I think you are dehumanizing people by trying to hide behind them.
I am not obfuscating anything. I am simply asking you to have compassion for people with rare genetic conditions. You have demonstrated your lack of empathy by refusing to see the things from a perspective other than your own.
I'd suggest you use AFAB and AMAB instead of XX and XY.
The trans-in-sports issue is OVERWHELMINGLY about XX humans participating in XY sports.
Talking about extremely rare conditions (that can be handled separately) is an attempt to obfuscate and is, in my opinion, a cheap way to use people with biological abnormalities as a shield.
I think you are dehumanizing people by trying to hide behind them.
I am not obfuscating anything. I am simply asking you to have compassion for people with rare genetic conditions. You have demonstrated your lack of empathy by refusing to see the things from a perspective other than your own.
I'd suggest you use AFAB and AMAB instead of XX and XY.
AFAB and AMAB are terms specifically designed to obscure the fact that 99+% of the time sex is not “assigned” at birth it is recognized at birth.
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