Kratochvilova's and Koch's records will be broken

From the WA site:

1975
51.60
Athina (GRE)
23 AUG 1975

1976
50.19
Berlin (GER)
10 JUL 1976

1977
49.53
Helsinki (FIN)
13 AUG 1977

1978
48.94
Stadion Evžena Rošického, Praha (TCH)
31 AUG 1978

1979
48.60
Torino (ITA)
04 AUG 1979

1980
48.88
Lenin Stadium, Moskva (URS)
28 JUL 1980

1981
49.27
Stadio Olimpico, Roma (ITA)
06 SEP 1981

1982
48.16
Olympic Stadium, Athina (GRE)
08 SEP 1982

1984
48.16
Praha (TCH)
16 AUG 1984

1985
47.60
Bruce Stadium, Canberra (AUS)
06 OCT 1985

So it looks like she was already decently fast already when she was 18, but I don't know if she was using at the time, nor do I know just how fast 51.60 is at that age for women.

I think there are two main reasons for why these records might not be broken. First of all, 400 and 800m seem to be the distances where steroid doping women helps more than anywhere else (except throws). (This fits with DSD males presenting as females were best in 400/800 as well.)

The Russians and Chinese also ran insane 1500m times but the effect here and in the shorter sprints seems not quite as large.

The other point is how insanely good the world records in the *men's* 400+800m were already around ~40 years ago, and they were not that much effected by what can be assumed to be laxer/stricter doping controls in the last 50 years.

Coe and Cruz from the 80s are still in the top 5 of all time, and there are two more from the 1980s (Koskei, Gray) in the top 20 (and only 2, Kipketer and Rodal, from the 1990s heyday of EPO). Similarly, of the 22 men with sub 44 sec., about a third ran these marks 24-55 years ago.

So it seems to me that their is just no leeway for better training for 400/800; we have basically known for 40 or more years how to get people fast in these distances and have not found any magic tricks (and even the illegal ones don't seem to the wonders they do elsewhere).

TRP guy is on this forum and gets many of not most of his ideas from here.

I have got to think that he could care less

Kratochvilova's and Koch's records should have been invalid already.
It's not right that current athletes are being banned from competing for XY DSD, while these two doped athletes still remain in the world records' lists.
It doesn't feel good man!
I know it, you know it, and everybody knows it, period!

jarmila ran 53 seconds in the 400,up till 1977,then ran 51 seconds in 1978,and improved from there.of course she was very roided but ive never heard of roids turning a 53 second female runner,into a sub 48 runner.she had to be more talented than just a 53 second runner.either that,or she was the biggest responder in the history of the sport.i can accept a drugged woman in her 20s improving by 3 seconds in the 400,but not 5 !

Jarmila and her coach have both said that she significantly increased the intensity of her training in the late 1970s. That, plus steroids, resulted in 47.9 and 1:53.

Wasn't WA supposed to erase the old world records?

Watching videos of Koch's 47.60 is actually scary as hell. No way any runner today is touching that

Twice as muscled ? Have you ever seen Kratochvilova ?

You aren’t very smart, are you?

Your opinion is wrong though. You probably think kipchoge is clean too

No I think you are right - but I don't think anyone is suggesting that they had historic levels of talent. But they had some talent and at the point where they were doing the things they were doing, the talent to apply themselves in training is probably even more important than anything physical and with doping it makes that so much easier.

I think we have to accept that especially with women, when you are talking about adding synthetic hormones and steroids to their profiles that blur the lines between them and men, there is simply no amount of elite female talent that compete with that. So Koch and Jarmila didn't need to be elite talent. The Chinese of the mid 90's didn't need to be elite talents. Flo Jo didn't (and wasn't) an elite talent.

So unless we get an elite talent like Miller-Uibo, or Sydney M or Mu deciding to take the path of the chemical "aid" I don't think anything else matters.

those 3 are already chemically aided.nothing natty about them.

They may be slower but they haven't incurred a doping violation as she has.

She's run 50.88s already in her first race. This is just her second race and she looks like she's still in heavy training based on the video. What's more noteworthy to me is that she has beaten Cofil, who has run 49.80s and was consistently beating the world's best including the bronze medallist late last season twice already this year.

Frankly, you seem the one who is obsessed with C S. However, you are right. Someone who went through male puberty should not be discussed on a thread about female runners.

I don't think many posters appreciate the impact of PEDs vs. shoe and track technology, especially with respect to Women's sports.

Just look at the East German Swimming Team and their results in 1976 to 1988.

In 1976 the women won 11/13 Gold Medals and six silver medals whereas they only had one male medalist (Bronze). The US was a swimming powerhouse and traditionally had won the most medals on both the men's and women's side then all of a sudden east Germany becomes the most dominant women's swim team in the world. In 1972 and 1968 both the US Men and Women were dominant in swimming events as they had been since the 40s. The men continued to dominant in the late 70s and 80s where the women were displaced by the East Germans seemingly overnight.

The fact is steroids / testosterone provides women with such a bigger boost in sports like Track and swimming than any PED that men can take. EPO was a huge lift too but the ability to build so much more muscle mass by a women on steroids relative to a normal female provides a much bigger competitive advantage.