What is the rule for Minnesota? Just 4 outdoor meets?
I think the athlete should be allowed to compete but the school should be fined. Schools won't chose to violate the rule if it costs them more money than it would have cost to compete. They saved money now and didn't receive any consequence.
100% agree with this. there should be some sort of punishment for the school not meeting this requirement but sadly the punishment that has been given is only being dealt to one person. Fine the school, or the coach.. but don’t take away opportunities for the athlete who had no say in the matter.
I remember seeing a TikTok of one of their runners praising the coach and team as the 2nd coming. Wonder how this gets spun. Poor young lady deserves BETTER. Same with the Portland state steepler.
Funny thing is that same athlete was asked to jog in slow heats while seriously injured to help the team hit the 14 athlete minimum. Coaches were well aware of the issue and desperate at Stan
I don't understand how this can be a remotely challenging issue for colleges. An official meet can be a very low key event that requires little more planning or expense than a high school dual meet. If there are no local meets to jump into, just host a couple of home meets and invite a handful of nearby schools. Grab some walk-ons to show up and run 19 minute 5Ks if your roster is thin.
What is the rule for Minnesota? Just 4 outdoor meets?
I think the athlete should be allowed to compete but the school should be fined. Schools won't chose to violate the rule if it costs them more money than it would have cost to compete. They saved money now and didn't receive any consequence.
Track is seeming less a less of a team sport. Few duals are held. To get marks, a few athletes are being sent to a meet that caters to their event. In other meets, to keep within their budget only 15 or 16 athletes are sent. Athletes are being held out to continue training. It doesn't feel like college track when athletes show up only for the conference meet and NCAAs.
DING-DING-DING!
Teams can never show their AD/alums/other (potential) donors a win-loss record. Teams end up specializing in just a few events. Teams don't host home meets unless they're invitationals (to make money)--"Dual meet? Tri meet? What are those?"
I'm starting to see a bit of a trend of invitationals actually scoring the meet, and I applaud this, but it still doesn't have the impact of a good, closely fought dual meet with every event strongly contested. And anyway, lots of the coaches of teams that go to these regular season multi-school scoring meets don't even bother to report the scores, just the highlights of some of their individuals.
If we want to see our sport better respected, we need to respect it better ourselves.
This tells me the ncaa does not truly prioritize the success of it’s athletes
none of the solutions people proposed make any sense.
Do you kick out the last person accepted to the field to allow this guy back in? how is that fair to that athlete or his program who followed all of the rules and spent a lot of money to meet ncaa required minimums?
do you just add this athlete to the field and let 49 compete instead of 48? then 1 section of the steeplechase has 17 athletes (instead of 16) competing for the same number of auto-qualifying positions. that gives the athletes in that section a disadvantage of lower probability of qualifying and more traffic in the race and potentially more collisions.
It’s been a long time since I coached, but that form isn’t due to your conference until the end of the season. technically the season doesn’t end until after the NCAAs as some schools the NCAA Regional or Nationals is a countable meet. You can also count a meet as more than one meet by doing a “Double Dual”. Since that forms isn’t due yet for the year, it’s not outside the rules for them to go back to one of the non-scores meets that they had 14 competitors and contact two other schools and agree to score two duals and that is now 2 countable meets. Again, it’s been a long time but this is simply using the rules that are in place to your benefit. When I first started at Toledo we only had 15 women or so on the team so we had to be creative within the rules. Also, if a runner DNF or FS or Fouls out, they count. Not sure if they can find that. There’s still time to appeal this. Looks like one of the meets they had 13 athletes. Could potentially appeal that meet if someone was entered but didn’t compete due to illness/injury. I definitely would exhaust all options as there’s still a week.
Regionals and Nationals no longer count toward sport sponsorship. A team must meet sport sponsorship prior to NCAA declarations in order to be eligible.
Double duals are no longer allowed.
You are correct in your interpretation of the DNF rule.
And extenuating circumstances can be used in certain situations for an appeal. A very common one we've seen in the past few years is a positive COVID-19 test for an entered athlete. But if that puts you below the 14 athlete minimum, a responsible program would document this right away and include it when applying for an exemption.
Yes it is too late. The point was that the NCAA should have fined the school while not disqualifying the runner.
that would have taken an opportunity away from a runner who RIGHTFULLY qualified and whose teams abided by all NCAA rules.
You are forgetting that this is a team sport. The runner you want to knock out to let this guy in could have scored for his team and contributed points toward the team score and a potential national championship.
Your "kindness" actually screws over more people than the alternative.
The NCAA should not grant an exception though. if they just grant exceptions then nobody will follow the rules.
The rule shouldn't punish the athlete, it should punish the coaching staff. It wasn't the athlete's mistake, and it's the athlete who is punished. The coaching staff still has their jobs and gets to start their summer vacation early now.
Yes it is too late. The point was that the NCAA should have fined the school while not disqualifying the runner.
that would have taken an opportunity away from a runner who RIGHTFULLY qualified and whose teams abided by all NCAA rules.
You are forgetting that this is a team sport. The runner you want to knock out to let this guy in could have scored for his team and contributed points toward the team score and a potential national championship.
Your "kindness" actually screws over more people than the alternative.
The 48th entry in the steeplechase is going to contribute to a national championship? Otherwise, adding to a distance prelim is super easy. We see impeded athletes advanced all the time, sometimes adding multiple runners to the next round.
that would have taken an opportunity away from a runner who RIGHTFULLY qualified and whose teams abided by all NCAA rules.
You are forgetting that this is a team sport. The runner you want to knock out to let this guy in could have scored for his team and contributed points toward the team score and a potential national championship.
Your "kindness" actually screws over more people than the alternative.
The 48th entry in the steeplechase is going to contribute to a national championship? Otherwise, adding to a distance prelim is super easy. We see impeded athletes advanced all the time, sometimes adding multiple runners to the next round.
People can PR, people can fall. In this case the guy who got in has a 8:40 PR and a 3:58 mile. He might have been hurt for a while, but it wouldn't be shocking if he qualified through. He made it in 2022.
The problem appears to be far worse than mismanaging some paperwork. From Katie Camarena's (a volunteer asst coach at PSU who quit in protest of the new leadership) instagram:
"In the fall of 2021 Jordan and I both transferred to portland state because we believed in the future of the program and what the coaches were building there. We both had similar goals: to help elevate the program by competing at Nationals. After I graduated I wanted to stay at PSU to coach because I felt so strongly about the coaches, the future of the program & the team. Unfortunately, the coaches I was coached by, who I wanted to coach alongside, left. I soon followed because I felt as though the new staff was deceitful, unprofessional, unorganized and I did not support the new culture being implemented. In the 5 months since the new staff was hired, 9 men (almost 1/3 of the team!!!!) quit. Most of the others chose to enter the transfer portal or redshirt. Jordan even briefly entered the transfer portal! But, he chose to stay for his last season because of his goals & pride in representing PSU. There is an NCAA rule that in order to be considered a sport, 14 men must compete at 8 meets during the indoor and outdoor seasons. Because over half of the 30 man roster quit, transferred, redshirted or got injured, PSU was unable to meet this number. They had 6 meets where 14 men competed. The coaches admitted they knew back in February this would be a problem. But, nothing was done to remedy the situation! The punishment for this is that the PSU men will lose their post-season (regionals/nationals) But, the only man who had qualified is Jordan. So, because of the incompetence and indifference of the coaching staff Jordan is the only athlete being punished. His collegiate career is over. Why is the athlete being punished for the incompetence of the athletic department? Hopefully @ncaatrackfield will reconsider & let Jordan race!! I hope there is accountability on behalf of the athletic department, there should be repercussions for coaches who clearly don’t care about their athletes… If you have time please comment @ncaatrackfield to let Jordan race. And demand repercussions for the coaching staff and accountability from the athletic department by emailing the director of athletics John Johnson at "
How on Earth do you mismanage a track team this badly? In this day and age almost every team is going to have a few athletes transfer or quit, but you don't have to be Ted Lasso to keep the majority of your athletes reasonably happy, healthy and engaged, just don't be a total a--hole to everyone. There are literally thousands of high school and college coaches that manage to do this every year.
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