according to the iaaf scoring tables, sub 7:20 is slighly stronger that a 3:26 1500 and right at Chep's 10k record. Chep's 5k record is 7:20 low converted
those scoring tables are so heavily wrong often, but the 1500m WR gets more points than the 3000m WR, like it should be
Or not. Regardless of how much he has already trained, he’s likely to reach his peak in the 1500m at age 26-28 years just like anyone else. I’m pretty sure he wasn’t being paid for running until he was at least 18 and certainly not when he was 7 years old.
Korir is not being paid for running and yet won the WC. No matter how you twist it, human body can only take a certain amount of abuse before giving in. 15 years of hard training is around what than most pros can take. Also, everyone knows Jakob hates losing, so a few more times of losing against the likes of Wightman and he's ready to retire.
"I've been a professional runner since I was eight, nine, 10 years old,” Jakob Ingebrigtsen says. “I've been training, dedicated and following a good structure – the same as my brothers – from an early age."
Doesn’t everyone hate losing and I don’t see Jacob ever losing to Wrightman again. Maybe Jakob will become prone to injuries, but if he stays healthy he’ll stay at the same level, or maybe even improve a little more for another 5 years or so. I don’t think he knows what “professional” means but he calls his training a “good structure”.
Or not. Regardless of how much he has already trained, he’s likely to reach his peak in the 1500m at age 26-28 years just like anyone else. I’m pretty sure he wasn’t being paid for running until he was at least 18 and certainly not when he was 7 years old.
Also, everyone knows Jakob hates losing, so a few more times of losing against the likes of Wightman and he's ready to retire.
You make good points but that part is just not true, he hates losing so much that losing gives him a lot of motivation to get redemption. Have you seen that 5000m in Eugene ?
Also at the u20 european championships in 2017 Jakob fell in the 1500m final and lost to Jake Heyward, as a redemption he won the 5k and the 3000m steeple just hours later, he didn’t give up because he lost. Even crazier is he said he wanted to comeback 2 years later and do the 800/1500/5000/10000/3000steeple to get full redemption from that loss. (at 2:54 in this video https://youtu.be/iXmUKzM18Mk)
So yeah losing is the best thing that could happen to him, it motivates him a lot, I think that’s something different he has from Filip for exemple.
Korir is not being paid for running and yet won the WC. No matter how you twist it, human body can only take a certain amount of abuse before giving in. 15 years of hard training is around what than most pros can take. Also, everyone knows Jakob hates losing, so a few more times of losing against the likes of Wightman and he's ready to retire.
"I've been a professional runner since I was eight, nine, 10 years old,” Jakob Ingebrigtsen says. “I've been training, dedicated and following a good structure – the same as my brothers – from an early age."
Doesn’t everyone hate losing and I don’t see Jacob ever losing to Wrightman again. Maybe Jakob will become prone to injuries, but if he stays healthy he’ll stay at the same level, or maybe even improve a little more for another 5 years or so. I don’t think he knows what “professional” means but he calls his training a “good structure”.
Yeah, olympic and world champion Jakob Ingebrigtsen doesn't know what "professional training" mean...
I'm sure, he does. Also, he not only will lose against Wightman again, but also against Kerr and Katir is gonna scalp him at some point too. After losing to Tefera in winter and to Wightman now, everony has Jakobs number. Kenyans are not gonna rabbit for him anymore, as they learnd from Tims mistakes and Europeans will be sitting on Jakobs shoulder to get him in the last 200m. 5000m is the way to go for Jakob, as he's the fastest finisher there. While 12:35 is definitely out of reach, something like 12:40 is entirely possible.
Doesn’t everyone hate losing and I don’t see Jacob ever losing to Wrightman again. Maybe Jakob will become prone to injuries, but if he stays healthy he’ll stay at the same level, or maybe even improve a little more for another 5 years or so. I don’t think he knows what “professional” means but he calls his training a “good structure”.
Yeah, olympic and world champion Jakob Ingebrigtsen doesn't know what "professional training" mean...
I'm sure, he does. Also, he not only will lose against Wightman again, but also against Kerr and Katir is gonna scalp him at some point too. After losing to Tefera in winter and to Wightman now, everony has Jakobs number. Kenyans are not gonna rabbit for him anymore, as they learnd from Tims mistakes and Europeans will be sitting on Jakobs shoulder to get him in the last 200m. 5000m is the way to go for Jakob, as he's the fastest finisher there. While 12:35 is definitely out of reach, something like 12:40 is entirely possible.
As a matter of fact, I think 7:20 is tougher than 3:26.
hmm 7:20 hasn’t been given many attempts has it? komen ran it a lot but most of the other big names only attempted once or twice if i’m not mistaken. the 1500 is run by the very best multiple times a year, year after year and hasn’t been touched in 24 years.
Yeah, olympic and world champion Jakob Ingebrigtsen doesn't know what "professional training" mean...
I'm sure, he does. Also, he not only will lose against Wightman again, but also against Kerr and Katir is gonna scalp him at some point too. After losing to Tefera in winter and to Wightman now, everony has Jakobs number. Kenyans are not gonna rabbit for him anymore, as they learnd from Tims mistakes and Europeans will be sitting on Jakobs shoulder to get him in the last 200m. 5000m is the way to go for Jakob, as he's the fastest finisher there. While 12:35 is definitely out of reach, something like 12:40 is entirely possible.
Doesn’t seem like you’re much of a Jakob fan.
I do like Jakob. But I did track semi-professionally myself for 9 years, so I like to have a realistic view on things. 12:40 would be a very good result for Jakob and would put him right next to the GOATs of running like Bekele, Gebreselassie and Komen.
Who wants to bet that Jakob is either not gonna win the 1500m in Paris or gonna skip it altogether?
What makes the 3k record hard is the unique talent it takes. Most of the best ever are either 5k/10k specialists or 1500 specialists. For Ingebrigtsen to challenge both WRs, and the 3k, would make him very special, a talent range we've never seen, maybe closest is Said Aouita.
Almost who's ever gone 12:47 is basically a 5k/10k specialist. Komen is by far the best exception. His talent combination was something special. Bekele, who ran 12:37 and could have gone 3:30, knew he had no shot at 7:20.67.
On the other hand, 1500m specialists can rarely move up even to 3k let alone 5k. El G is a pretty big exception (and sort of Lagat too). El G only took one shot at a fast 5k -- 12:50 and fourth-fastest runner ever at the time (but lost to Cherono). And his 7:23.09 is still 2 seconds faster than the 3rd fastest all time! So, a special talent range.
7:20.67 is tough because it takes the right kind of talent. Ingebrigtsen has a special range. He already has maybe the best ever pair of PRs in the 1500m and 5000m. But he's still a pretty fair ways from 3:26.00 and quite far from 12:35.36. We'll see.
The other thing nobody is talking about when comparing records are the shoes.
What makes the 3k record hard is the unique talent it takes. Most of the best ever are either 5k/10k specialists or 1500 specialists. For Ingebrigtsen to challenge both WRs, and the 3k, would make him very special, a talent range we've never seen, maybe closest is Said Aouita.
Almost who's ever gone 12:47 is basically a 5k/10k specialist. Komen is by far the best exception. His talent combination was something special. Bekele, who ran 12:37 and could have gone 3:30, knew he had no shot at 7:20.67.
On the other hand, 1500m specialists can rarely move up even to 3k let alone 5k. El G is a pretty big exception (and sort of Lagat too). El G only took one shot at a fast 5k -- 12:50 and fourth-fastest runner ever at the time (but lost to Cherono). And his 7:23.09 is still 2 seconds faster than the 3rd fastest all time! So, a special talent range.
7:20.67 is tough because it takes the right kind of talent. Ingebrigtsen has a special range. He already has maybe the best ever pair of PRs in the 1500m and 5000m. But he's still a pretty fair ways from 3:26.00 and quite far from 12:35.36. We'll see.
The other thing nobody is talking about when comparing records are the shoes.
3000m needs some sort of special talents which seperates the distance from 5000m, 10000m and 1500m? What a nonsense.
El Guerrouj was seventh fastest in the 5000m, not fourth fastest.
El Guerrouj and Lagat both have a better pair of records in the 1500m and 5000m than JI.
Did anyone notice that Jakob was the only one wearing an ice vest when they walked out for the 5000mF? Seemingly little things like this make me think he is ahead of everyone in his thinking.
An other thing that stands out to me is an interview I heard with someone, maybe it was Hoare(?), that said he didn't do double sessions as he always ended up forgetting to do the second session. Such a lack of dedication is simply mind blowing.
An other thing that stands out to me is an interview I heard with someone, maybe it was Hoare(?), that said he didn't do double sessions as he always ended up forgetting to do the second session. Such a lack of dedication is simply mind blowing.
There is a men's 3000 at Monaco on August 10, the week before Europeans. Super fast track. Right between two big championships so Jakob is in top form. Prime opportunity to go for a WR.
There is a men's 3000 at Monaco on August 10, the week before Europeans. Super fast track. Right between two big championships so Jakob is in top form. Prime opportunity to go for a WR.
The 7.20 WR is crazy good and breaking that is asking a lot, But The 7:26 European Record By Mourhit of Belgium Could Happen, I think he gets that Meaning he would have The European Records in the 1500, 3000 and 5000 al before his 22nd Birthday, Eventually all his ER's will be Broken, but that future person will not be that young.
Many people here seem to think it is completely uncertain if Jakob can improve further and if so how much. OLDOLDRUNNER is a good example og having that attitude.
I disagree. As I have argued in many other threads:
If you train right aerobically you can improve your aerobic capacity year after year in many cases up your thirties.
Jakob trains right aerobically so everything equal (avoiding illness and injury) he will improve aerobically for many years and thus his PB´s in everything from at least 1500m and up.
FACTS:
That is also what many, many former and current top runners did!
I copy my post from earlier this year with more details:
" Plain wrong wrote: "I agree Ingebrigtsen could have run 12:45 in Florence, but it’s a long way down to 12:35. He might be capable of 12:40 at best, though I doubt we’ll ever see him try. It wouldn’t surprise me if his mark from Florence ended up being a career best. " ---------------
Objective observer wrote:
" Do you realize that your opinion is completely without reason.? A mere postulate.
If Jakob stays motivated and continues his effective, mainly aerobic training he will also improve his performances from 800m and up.
It is quite simple: If you train right aerobically you will - surprise, surprise - improve your aerobic capacity and consequently improve your times. That goes for every serious middle and long distance runner and of course also for Jakob. ---------------- You conveniently ignored to comment on my examples where Gebrselassie, Bekele and Cheptegei who were all great 5000m runners already as teenagers still managed to improve significantly untill each of them broke the WR. With 24, 17 and 24 seconds respectively.
To show that these 3 are not outliers I will mention a "few" other former and current international runners who too have improved significantly after the age of 20:
FORMER 5000m RUNNERS´ improvement from age 20: Dieter Baumann 40 seconds from 21 Chris Solinsky 42 sec Craig Mottram 30 sec Ritzenheim 43 sec Bob Kennedy 24 sec M. Tegenkamp 46 sec G. Rupp 39 sec from age 18 (Rupp ran faster at 18 than at 20) Mo Farah 45 sec B Lagat 67 sec
ACTIVE 5000M RUNNERS´ improvement from age 20: Mo Ahmed 47 sec Mo Katir 59.5 sec Justyn Knight 26 sec Paul Chelimo 55.5 Nicolas Kimeli 6 sec (from age 20 to age 21) Grant Fischer 27.5 sec Marc Scott 32 sec McSweyn 37 sec McGorthy 42 sec Klecker 36 sec Jimmy Gressier 41 sec A. Butchardt 52 sec L. Grijalva 27 sec Hugo Hay 41 sec M. McDonald 16.5 sec Foppen 56 sec N. Nordaas 17 sec W. Kincaid 61 sec Centrowitz 48 sec Y. Crippa 72 sec Robert Brandt 26.5 Ben True 76 sec Is the average improvement from age 20 around 40 seconds? And many of the younger runners would possibly be quite disappointed if they don´t improve further!"
At least Nicholas Kipkorir (Kimeli) and Fisher have in the meantime improved their times further (Fisher in his sensational indoor 5000m).
As a matter of fact, I think 7:20 is tougher than 3:26.
hmm 7:20 hasn’t been given many attempts has it? komen ran it a lot but most of the other big names only attempted once or twice if i’m not mistaken. the 1500 is run by the very best multiple times a year, year after year and hasn’t been touched in 24 years.
Feel like that's right in the money. Kommen ran 3:29/7:20/12:39. That is a good line, but not unheard of. In the 90s there were not many 5k runners with this mike speed. I feel like 3:25 will he harder to achieve than 7:19. It would not surprise me at all to see the 3000 going down to 7:17ish and the 5k to 12:30ish in the next 3 years. And when some people laugh here pls remember when back in 2017 I said that the half will go to at least 57:xx because for a 2:00:25 Marathon you need sub 58 shape.
The 3000m record is not weak and Jakob is not beating it. To put this in perspective, when El G ran 7:23, the week before he ran 4:44 for 2000m and the week before that, he won the World Champs in 3:27.65(53.9 last 400, 38.6 last 300) leading from 800 so he was arguably in World record 1500 shape and had set the mile World Record just a month before that so this was absolute prime El G. His opening splits in his 7:23 were a bit erratic, 2:29/2:24 I believe for 4:53 at 2000m but not exactly crazy considering Komen went out in 2:25 and then ran a 57.6 next 400!
El G with ideal pacing that day is maybe running 7:21 and is close but El G being theoretically close is one thing considering who El G is and the performances he was putting in leading up that attempt.
One last comparison. I see a lot of people saying that Jakob's performance in Eugene last week shows that he is currently much better than 12:48, maybe they are right but I want to show some splits to compare his performance to someone else's World final performance. Both took the lead with 1k to go...
Jakob: 2:24 last 1000m
El G : 2:24 last 1000m
Jakob: 59 second last lap
El G: 59 second last lap
Jakob: 54.09 last lap
El G: 53.56 last lap
Jakob: 13:09 finish time
El G: 12:52 finish time
If Jakobs performance in Eugene means he is much better than 12:48. What in the World does El G's performance in Paris say about his 12:50 PR!?!? Prime El G probably had the ability to be close to Komens 7:20 but Jakob will never be in the realm of 3:26 flat wheels while also having probably 12:40-12:45 endurance like El G or having his current 1500 ability plus sub-12:40 endurance like Komen.
And I know people will bring age into and say Jakob is 21, he's turning 22 in less than two months but he is not alone in history anymore to have PR's as fast as his at this age. Hicham had a 3:48 mile PR at 20 and had run 3:29.05 1500m time at 21 but was improving substantially year on year still whereas Jakob is starting to slightly plateau(his 1500 PR "only" dropping 1.7 seconds since he was 18 and 2.7 seconds since he was 17. On the 5000m end, Bekele had run 12:37 for 5000 at 21 and 11 months which is pretty much exactly the age Jakob is now. Daniel Komen had run 3:29/3:46/7:20/12:39 at Jakobs age. Wale ran over 2 seconds faster indoors than Jakob has outdoors when they are both pretty much the same age, Kipchoge and Kiplimo were/are on the same level timewise as him at 3000/5000 at the same age ir younger. Not saying he can't/won't improve but making the point that his age is becoming less and less of an argument every day that passes.
Jakob will not break any of the 1500/mile/3000/5000 records in his career. He will collect a ton of championship medals and will have a list of great times across times across various distances but he will never be fastest ever at any single distance and that's not a knock on him. He's having an incredible career so far but nothing is a given in athletics, especially World Records and even progression.
hmm 7:20 hasn’t been given many attempts has it? komen ran it a lot but most of the other big names only attempted once or twice if i’m not mistaken. the 1500 is run by the very best multiple times a year, year after year and hasn’t been touched in 24 years.
Feel like that's right in the money. Kommen ran 3:29/7:20/12:39. That is a good line, but not unheard of. In the 90s there were not many 5k runners with this mike speed. I feel like 3:25 will he harder to achieve than 7:19. It would not surprise me at all to see the 3000 going down to 7:17ish and the 5k to 12:30ish in the next 3 years. And when some people laugh here pls remember when back in 2017 I said that the half will go to at least 57:xx because for a 2:00:25 Marathon you need sub 58 shape.
Pikachu
That’s a good line? How many guys have run 3:29/3:46 and 12:39? Jakob has run 3:28 and if he gets to 12:40, he’ll be right where he needs to be to approach 7:20.
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