Coffee Club breaks the news that Shelby has followed BTC to train in Flag….

Please calm down. Have you or Jon Gault recently asked her to do an interview about her current training and goals until her ban ends? When certain US sprinters were banned where and with whom did they train? Might be interesting to find out. Inquiring minds are interested.

Haha rojo is funny. Shelby the criminal robbed hundreds of thousands in money. She should be in prison over anyone robbing the local bank or shop

From the guy known for his vile posts in this thread:

This is the Lance Armstrong effect. The posters on this site know that in the pro ranks the sport is dirty through and through, that all the top distance runners are doping. But they will overcompensate and scapegoat an athlete that gets caught to pretend it was only that particular athlete, not the sport itself, that is at issue. The idea seems to be if they can direct enough vitriol at the scapegoat, that they are supposedly unique bad, this deflects from the general rot.

astro wrote:

This is the Lance Armstrong effect. The posters on this site know that in the pro ranks the sport is dirty through and through, that all the top distance runners are doping. But they will overcompensate and scapegoat an athlete that gets caught to pretend it was only that particular athlete, not the sport itself, that is at issue. The idea seems to be if they can direct enough vitriol at the scapegoat, that they are supposedly unique bad, this deflects from the general rot.

Or maybe it's the Marion Jones effect, where we're tired of the anti-doping structure's ineptitude aided and abetted by associates unwilling to have the guts to bear witness to cheats. The other side of that is fans feeling foolish for buying the popular narrative around BTC and overlooking the fact that it's really just Nike being Nike.

rojo wrote:

PS. Personally, whether she doped intentionally or not, I think her ban as well as everyone else who doped should be reduced to 3 years. A ban is supposed to mean 1 Olympic cycle missed. You shouldn't miss 2 Olympics due to a single drug ban.

While I disagree with everything else in your post, I actually agree with this last part. The 4-year ban is 100% intended to represent a single Olympic cycle. Honestly, I think her ban will get reduced for this very reason.

For everything else, I want the BTC women to be following the rules and not risk their own suspensions, so they need to be doing everything on the straight and narrow. Are they? It doesn’t seem like it right now. Cranny, Schweizer, and Frerichs all potentially have world medal upside, and they’re currently behaving in a gray-area on doping rules? As an American and a huge fan of track and field and the US team, it concerns me that they’re doing this.

sayyestonepotism wrote:

Haha rojo is funny. Shelby the criminal robbed hundreds of thousands in money. She should be in prison over anyone robbing the local bank or shop

Using steroids without a prescription is technically illegal, and she should be charged and fined. I have no sympathy for Shelby. None.

on topic wrote:

rojo wrote:

Could I have her run time trials broadcast on LetsRun.com? Maybe I should do it just to piss all of you sanctimonious aholes off. I've always said if I was her I'd have myself drug tested every single day, continue to train and then runs 3:55 to prove to people I did it clean. I think that should 100% be allowed.

Do it. It would be controversial and bring eyeballs and best of all, it would force some clarity on the verbiage that we're all trying to interpret. Have you reached out to her?

Honestly, this would be tailor-made for LetsRun.

JBaller33 wrote:

sayyestonepotism wrote:

Haha rojo is funny. Shelby the criminal robbed hundreds of thousands in money. She should be in prison over anyone robbing the local bank or shop

Using steroids without a prescription is technically illegal, and she should be charged and fined. I have no sympathy for Shelby. None.

Intent would be a key factor !

astro wrote:

This is the Lance Armstrong effect. The posters on this site know that in the pro ranks the sport is dirty through and through, that all the top distance runners are doping. But they will overcompensate and scapegoat an athlete that gets caught to pretend it was only that particular athlete, not the sport itself, that is at issue. The idea seems to be if they can direct enough vitriol at the scapegoat, that they are supposedly unique bad, this deflects from the general rot.

Please clarify what you mean by “all and top distance runners”

I find your statement to be offensive to the majority of distance runners that are clean and work their behinds off to be in the top group. Top three, top five, top ten, top twenty time wise, Olympics, World Championships - what is it? How would you know with certainty. Slander is lazy and very disrespectful.

I don't know what astro thinks. But I do know that 43.6% admitted to doping at the global championship level.

For example, 45 ladies made it to the start of the three rounds over 1500 m in the last Olympics.

Statistically that included 20 dopers and 25 clean athletes.

13 made it into the final. So some dopers didn't. Could a clean runner have made it so far? Possibly.

Could a clean runner have been top-3, beating 18 of the most talented dopers worldwide? Highly unlikely (unless doping doesn't help).

you know part of why I got into this site back in 2002 was because it was the only place where it seemed like drugs were being taken seriously, and y'all were speaking serious truth to power.

You did it with R*g*na J*c*bs and you even did it with Lance when everyone was licking out of the palm of his hand. Even with allegations, you've always taken a measured approach. You allow it because it's important to keep the sport clean, for athletes to know that fans and clean athletes have two eyes in their heads.

But then Shelby gets popped and all of a sudden that's out the door.

Sanctimonious???? Seriously? She's a drug cheat. There is zero evidence to prove otherwise, and all the evidence to prove she's guilty. Now she's lying to everyone and trying to grift money. It's gross!

I used to like Shelby too. I used to root for her too. But it's so painfully clear she cheated, that she ingested the nandrolone on purpose, that it was probably a part of another supplement and she was probably doing it for years.

She's lying to everyone. Still. She won't come clean. Still. BTC made a circus of the Olympic trials blah blah blahing on national tv and the press conferences over the "injustice". What injustice? "If you look the factssss" they all whined. What facts are in her favor? None. They made the Olympic trials all about her. It was gross, privileged and entitled. The system did not fail her.

Shelby training with BTC is disrespecting the sport. BTC agreeing to train with her is also disrespecting the sport. Sorry that we are sanctimonious now that we don't want drug cheats hanging around. Guess that's the new standard here at lets run dot com

What if she did not cheat?

What if her friends believe she did not cheat?

There is only evidence that the rules were broken.

Why is it clear she took the substance deliberately and that such was part of a supplement she took for years; yet she had been tested for years ?

Deal with it. No reason to think distance runners are any different than other distance athletes like cyclists and every top cyclist and their domestiques have been EPO doping since the early 90s.

Just realized that the 2016 BTC Babes group that made the Olympics is all gone except for Courtney.

awwwww sad.

Reading the rules, it says a banned athlete can't use facilities or resources of member federations or affiliated clubs.

So it would seem she couldn't be coached by Jerry, as that would be receiving a benefit from the club.

*but* what's to stop her from dropping a couple hundred bucks a month or whatever to Jerry and saying "give me your best coaching plan for 5k/k runners." The AIU comes calling she's just paying for private coaching which isn't forbidden in the code.

Tbh my biggest take away from this saga is that the rules on banned athletes are not clear or well thought out at all. Again, what does "practice" mean? Is an easy run practice? If she bumps into other pro runners (non BTC) and runs with them what ramifications does that have?

From her gofundme it seems Shelby spent a ton on legal fees, so I imagine if she has half a brain cell she asked for guidance on what she could do while banned. But still, it's kinda unfair the rules are clear as mud on details of actual training, from a fan POV.

Actually, Gault, Rojo et all should ask the AIU what banned athletes can or can't do when they're banned. Ask for definitions of "organized" and "practice." Put different scenarios to them

Fans of the sport deserve to know this and get clarity beyond the one dinky useless line in section 10 of the code.

rojo wrote:

[quote]Beaver State Track Maven wrote:

Could I have her run time trials broadcast on LetsRun.com? Maybe I should do it just to piss all of you sanctimonious aholes off. I've always said if I was her I'd have myself drug tested every single day, continue to train and then runs 3:55 to prove to people I did it clean. I think that should 100% be allowed.

.

I once asked USADA for a drug test and they said it'd cost somewhere around $1700. So paying out of pocket every single day for a year would be $620,500. Plus, I'd wager less than 1% of people who thought she intentionally doped would change their minds... Everyone would just say, "remember when Armstrong literally did this exact same thing"? So would you really do this if you were her?