5:06/10:39/17:38.
And just because she committed doesn't mean that an unrecruited girl would necessarily be allowed to walkon if her PRs were 5:00/11:20/19:00. The question was the slowest that a girl could run and be allowed to walkon to any team. The referenced girl has nice XC and 5:06 and may have been recruited for the past 2 years. Or she may have a 36 ACT and the coach gets a bonus for a team with GPA over 3.5. I stand by 4:50 as the absolute minimum to guarantee a walkon spot anywhere.
Yes 4:50 is the correct answer. I challenge a girl to contact NC State today with PRs of 2:23/4:55/11:30/20:00 who runs 50 MPW. Betting you will be told to stay in touch during outdoor.
title 9 and Covid_ wrote:
I posted this earlier and a bunch of you seemed to ignore it. Rosters are full of 5th and 6th year super seniors right now due to covid so there are less spots for 5:00 walk ons. Add in the roster reductions tied to strained athletic budgets and you have even less spots. Last, none of you mentioned super shoes which make a 5:00 now equivalent to a ~5:02 from several years ago.
Combine all of this and I bet there are 10-15 programs right now that would turn away a 5:00 miler depending on the circumstances around this PR. Still many other walk-on options from solid programs but the landscape has changed in the last 5 years…
What would the budget have to do with walk-ons? There won't be any airline tickets, hotel rooms or meals from them being on the team.
merry coin wrote:
Yes 4:50 is the correct answer. I challenge a girl to contact NC State today with PRs of 2:23/4:55/11:30/20:00 who runs 50 MPW. Betting you will be told to stay in touch during outdoor.
Well, ok, fair enough, but 11:30 and 20:00 are painfully slow for a girl who can run 4:55. Most girls talented enough to walk on at all but the very elite squads are going to be significantly faster than 11:30, and, certainly, 20:00.
I think any coach would be dumb not to take a flier on a girl who can break 5:00 on fairly low volume and who has very good academic credentials. Sub-4:55 would be my answer for all schools, especially if the girl is solid in xc too.
10:30 and 16:49 are the 4:55 equivalents for a girl who isn’t just a 400/800 type.
That's the point. 4:55 isn't enough if you show that you are not good at distance.
Daddy overdo wrote:
That's the point. 4:55 isn't enough if you show that you are not good at distance.
Ok, I won’t disagree. But, 4:59 is the equivalent of 10:38 and 17:03. If the girl CAN run those times and is a decent student, what team would be foolish enough to decline her as a walk-on? That would be a recruited athlete by many teams actually, especially if the academics aren’t awful.
Yes. Most schools but the question was for all schools. That includes Stanford and Notre Dame and Wisconsin and Michigan and NC State and BYU and every other of the hundreds of schools. A one off 4:55 with bad distance tomes and average 800 time is not enough to guarantee every single school.
merry coin wrote:
Yes 4:50 is the correct answer. I challenge a girl to contact NC State today with PRs of 2:23/4:55/11:30/20:00 who runs 50 MPW. Betting you will be told to stay in touch during outdoor.
The times you list .... 2:23/4:55/11:30/20:00 as PRs would be highly unlikely to occur. Anything is possible, of course, but the 4:55 is an outlier there. As a coach it would indicate to me that this girl rarely ran an event other than the 1600 and is likely either much faster over 800 or much faster in the 3200 than her time indicates.
I am not sure why people think they can actually pinpoint the actual 1600 time that would allow a girl to walk on to any program in the land or why they would try to figure it out... but, as a coach, I can tell you there are far more variables at play than simply the time...
all I will say is it would depend on the year and the circumstances surrounding the top teams at the time.
Yes there are. That is the point of the question. What is the absolute slowest time that guarantees you a spot at every school. That means you need to assume she is at high mileage and has crappy times in other events and then look at the absolutely best programs. So considering all of this things, what time can you be 99.99% certain of? I am going back to 4:50 because it may be for a girl who has been running 60MPW for 4 years and the PR may have been sophomore year with a 4:58 junior year. Knowing this things, if her 800 and 3200 had been run a bunch of times but were not impressive, I would be concerned if I was a coach at NC State or BYU or Stanford. I would take her but wouldn't take the chance if the PR soph year was 5:00 and 5:05 junior year.
merry coin wrote:
Yes there are. That is the point of the question. What is the absolute slowest time that guarantees you a spot at every school. That means you need to assume she is at high mileage and has crappy times in other events and then look at the absolutely best programs. So considering all of this things, what time can you be 99.99% certain of? I am going back to 4:50 because it may be for a girl who has been running 60MPW for 4 years and the PR may have been sophomore year with a 4:58 junior year. Knowing this things, if her 800 and 3200 had been run a bunch of times but were not impressive, I would be concerned if I was a coach at NC State or BYU or Stanford. I would take her but wouldn't take the chance if the PR soph year was 5:00 and 5:05 junior year.
But that’s a different conversation entirely, higher volume and regressing in her times. I would be leery of that too. My assumption in this entire conversation is that the girl is not running high volume and has been progressing all the way to senior year, such that the 4:59 or 4:55 is a PR off no more than 40-50 mpw, w a corresponding 17:00 5k time, for example. Yes, some top teams might think it too slow still, but any coach who wouldn’t at least consider it would be an idiot.
No. That is the precise question of the thread.
What is the slowest 1600 time that will allow a girl to walk-on to every college track team?
It's like I said, there are too many variables... there is no way you can possible know the answer.
You are all adding your own qualifiers to get an answer.
( I only jumped into the discussion because your splits didn't make sense and you just explained that you did that to get the answer you were looking for.)
No there aren't. You are struggling with a straightforward question. The point is to provide the slowest time that will get you onto every team. This is the only data point so you have to assume the worst case scenario for a coach for the rest. That means an athlete who is on an elite team who is fully trained and who has a 1600 faster than their other times. Let's also assume that she has form that gets you concerned about injuries. She has average grades and test scores. She isn't a great team member. Now what 1600 time is fast enough that every single college coach will take a chance? I say 4:50.
ahh... sure...
I'm struggling no more than you are.
I have my answer. Too many variables to know.
Your answer apparently is 4:50. Good for you.
Betting you are in academia. It is a simple question. How can you not grasp this? People like you are very frustrating to converse with. Don't comment at all if you can't assess the situation and provide your opinion. I know many people who can't answer a simple question of something like "what is the average price of a gallon of gas?" Well it depends on what city or what grade. No it doesn't. The average includes all of those factors.
omg wrote:
Betting you are in academia. It is a simple question. How can you not grasp this? People like you are very frustrating to converse with. Don't comment at all if you can't assess the situation and provide your opinion. I know many people who can't answer a simple question of something like "what is the average price of a gallon of gas?" Well it depends on what city or what grade. No it doesn't. The average includes all of those factors.
Guess again.
Don't get frustrated, though. You have your answer. I have mine. ( which is, too many variables to know...)
The reason you are frustrated is because you think there is an exact answer and that you have that answer. (heck you don't even know which school it would come down to but you somehow have your answer... )
Oh... hate to tell you this isn't 'what is the average price of a gallon of gas?'... it's not even close to that type of a question.
I'll exit the conversation now so you will no longer have to be 'frustrated'.
5:10 or 5:15 if ... wrote:
5:10 or 5:15 if willing to steeplechase.
^This but ussualy have to be local or have some other upside.
correct answer is that there are always other factors. Question is ultimately meaningless because the coach is going to look at more than just one time in one event....
This is a fun question that obviously is too baffling for the average Letsrun poster. Of course, the coach will look at every other factor. That is the point. Taking all of those things into account, how slow of a time would guarantee a girl a spot at every program? Others have said 4:50 and that is the correct answer. Are some of you saying that 4:50 would be turned away at a school? Is there a team that deep and is there a girl who could be that overtrained in order for a coach to say no thanks? It is clear that we don't have very many bright people here because the problem is not overly complex.