Warholm runs 45.51... with no hurdles

He didn’t blame the wind, he just didn’t feel as good as he have in other races this year. He did 48.xx at the Norwegian championship late season last year and i guess he is at that level now unfortunately.

llort_vbo wrote:

The Unkle wrote:

45.94 over hurdles --- this is clearly equivalent to a sub 44.00 flat race.

Just because two things line up in the point tables (or your arbitrary model) does not mean the same person can do both

Of course it does.

Other than Warholm, there has never been a world class 400m hurdler who did not have a PR in the open 400m that is at least 2 secs faster.

Just common sense. Don't be silly

The Unkle wrote:

[quote]llort_vbo wrote:

[

Just because two things line up in the point tables (or your arbitrary model) does not mean the same person can do both

Line up?

45.94 hurdles is far superior to open 44.00 time

Probably akin to 43.00

Skirocer wrote:

Where are all the people who said he would go sub 43? Even with optimal conditions, he isn't sniffing the WR.

If 1.7 is the average difference between all top 400H runners and their open 400 then 45.9 isn't really that good.

Any normal 44.0 runner should be running 45.7.

Lol.

45.9 is still a weak WR.

Edwin Moses - 47.02/45.60

https://worldathletics.org/athletes/united-states/edwin-moses-14358126

1.4 s. Are you saying 0.6s doesn’t matter in a sprint?

The Unkle wrote:

The Unkle wrote:

[quote]llort_vbo wrote:

[

Just because two things line up in the point tables (or your arbitrary model) does not mean the same person can do both

Line up?

45.94 hurdles is far superior to open 44.00 time

Probably akin to 43.00

IAAF points table gives 42.77 (400m) as equivalent to 45.94 (400mH) or 1340 points. That’s why points tables are only for rough comparisons.

Kevin Young

46.78/45.11 - 1.67s

Some hurdlers have hurdled within 1.5 secs of their 400m pr and warholm could be a more efficient hurdler. It doesn't cost you .2 secs over a hurdle necessarily if you can go lower over the hurdle and put your foot down fast, and let's say your stride through a hurdle is 40% slower the faster you are going the less time you lose. It's very possible warholm can run within 1.3 secs of his 400m best.

Makwala has a 44.47 seasons best and london has a 44.47 lifetime best and a 44.86 seasons best. Warholm might not have gotten much faster if 400m.

I'd give warholm a 44.4-44.65 fresh in better conditions.

The Unkle wrote:

llort_vbo wrote:

Just because two things line up in the point tables (or your arbitrary model) does not mean the same person can do both

Of course it does.

Other than Warholm, there has never been a world class 400m hurdler who did not have a PR in the open 400m that is at least 2 secs faster.

Just common sense. Don't be silly

Yep, the following 6 hurdlers among the world's all-time top-20 performers

Alison Dos Santos, who regularly ran 400s and 4x4s (45.78/46.72)

Bryan Bronson (45.66/47.02)

Kyron McMaster (45.84i/47.08)

Amadou Dia Ba (45.78/47.23)

James Carter (46.21/47.43)

Hadi Soua'an Al Somaily (46.60/47.53)

Bad Wigins wrote:

This just means the Warthog doesn't have the leg speed turnover to get to sub 45.

Finally some well thought of post from you, Wig. You probably also agree with me that Bolt doesn't have the leg speed turnover to get to sub 10.

Warholm was a tad slower than Bonevacia. A couple of days before Lausanne Bonevacia ran a Dutch NR of 44.48. So I guess Warholm was in 44.5 shape.

I found the whole discussion before this event hilarious. As a math professor my recommendation is do not try to abuse mathematics or it will abuse you.

44.5 is plausible. Again, if he was in sub 44 shape he'd be running the more prestigious flat, not the hurdles.

What if he’s been clocking 0.85” 10m fly times and 3.0x” reaction 10m times for the last two years, but knew that he wouldn’t be able to increase his speed any further, due to details of his training that his coach and himself have been withholding?

What if he really does care more about the 400mH legacy than for trying to compete with the likes of WvN and other guys who run right at 10 and sub 20? I’m thinking of it like this- given that KW is more of a mixed-type athlete, he already has an endurance bend. Is it possible that he and his coach already developed his speed potential to it’s fullest, and that his speed is actually comparable to that of 400m runners on the podium, but that he chooses not to focus on that, because he has the option of being the Usain Bolt of hurdles?

To me, it looks like KW had insane speed at the time of 8/03/21, and isn’t his getting passed at the back stretch of the Lausanne 400m more indicative of a lack of strength than speed?

So he lost his insane speed in just two weeks? Nope. Hurdles are for those who can't hack it in the flat. And remember KW was losing every race to Samba until an injury took Samba out of 2019. He focused on overcoming Samba that made him who he is now. As for speed, no way he can compete with the likes of Gardiner, Norman and yes, even Benjamin, who routinely scare sub-20 in the 200.

llort_vbo wrote:

The Unkle wrote:

Line up?

45.94 hurdles is far superior to open 44.00 time

Probably akin to 43.00

IAAF points table gives 42.77 (400m) as equivalent to 45.94 (400mH) or 1340 points. That’s why points tables are only for rough comparisons.

As I noted. 45.94 is not "lined up" with 44.00. It is lined up with 42.77

Surely Warholm on his best day can run sub 44.00 open 400m.

Moses ran how many open 400ms? What was his best 400m relay split?

one armed bandit wrote:

The Unkle wrote:

Of course it does.

Other than Warholm, there has never been a world class 400m hurdler who did not have a PR in the open 400m that is at least 2 secs faster.

Just common sense. Don't be silly

Yep, the following 6 hurdlers among the world's all-time top-20 performers

Alison Dos Santos, who regularly ran 400s and 4x4s (45.78/46.72)

Bryan Bronson (45.66/47.02)

Kyron McMaster (45.84i/47.08)

Amadou Dia Ba (45.78/47.23)

James Carter (46.21/47.43)

Hadi Soua'an Al Somaily (46.60/47.53)

A bunch of guys who rarely run open 400m -- many perhaps have never run one since attaining world class.

You honestly think a world class 400m hurdler cannot run 2 secs faster in the open 400m without all those hurdles?

Really?

Let's look at someone who ran both races on the regular, Angelo Taylor. 47.25 and 44.05.

The Unkle wrote:

You honestly think a world class 400m hurdler cannot run 2 secs faster in the open 400m without all those hurdles?

Yes. It depends on the athlete, of course.

For example, I’d assert the hurdles slow down Rai more than Warholm.

I mean… Warholm is constantly praised for having PERFECT hurdling technique so it’s safe to assume his 400-400h gap would be smaller than the average world class 400h, no?

Angelo might just have unrefined hurdling technique. Most other athletes don't have that big a difference between the hurdles, he's the fastest hurdler.

I think it's easily possible to hurdle within 1.5 secs of your 400m with near perfect technique. A world class hurdler should aim to be less than 2 secs slower over hurdles.

Reviewing the gentlement above, Alison dos Santos appears to be a regular staple 400m sprinter and long relay runner who is not miles ahead of his hurdle best. He's also only the 5th person ever to run <47 in the hurdles.