If we were actually following the data and science and weren't selfish, we wouldn't allow Cole Hocker to get vaccinated now

^THIS

The US has wasted thousands of vaccines because of oversupply/vaccine hesitancy. A few hundred Olympians arguing that they're not getting vaccinated to save vaccines for other countries is absurd.

rojo wrote:

I've deleted this post but am responding to it to help teach people what is and isn't deleted and why.

Another question because the 'why' part isn't quite clear to me yet:

A thread about a runner having a laugh about a silly rumor regarding cardboard beds was locked for being 'fake news.' Yet misinformation about athletes, politicians (on both sides), science, the election, covid, and any number of other topics doesn't get locked.

Why?

While it’s his choice whether or not to get vaccinated, it’s still wrong not to because he can contract and spread the virus to more immunocompromised individuals. Doubtful he’s wearing a mask in public so odds are he is helping to spread it. The whole argument about saving the vaccines for the elderly is BS as the vast majority of elderly in the states are already vaccinated and have been eligible since January. The US has had excess supply for every American to receive the shot, Hocker has been eligible for months and his decision may cost lives

I don't think young people foregoing the vaccine in the US will increase supply in other countries. As I understand it, the US is not exporting vaccine surpluses.

In fact, I believe the US had some vaccines spoil as there weren't enough people to take them before the expiration date, so if we want the US to help get all the elderly across the world vaccinated, then the young should be getting the jab ASAP so that pretty much the entire population is fully immunised and the country can start exporting the vaccine surplus.

But also, regardless of all this, I think it's inconsiderate for an athlete to not vaccinate even if just because they might give it to someone else in the village and spoil a moment they've been training for the whole life. The vaccine won't completely avoid that but it'll reduce the chances of it happening.

ragingclue wrote:

While it’s his choice whether or not to get vaccinated, it’s still wrong not to because he can contract and spread the virus to more immunocompromised individuals. Doubtful he’s wearing a mask in public so odds are he is helping to spread it. The whole argument about saving the vaccines for the elderly is BS as the vast majority of elderly in the states are already vaccinated and have been eligible since January. The US has had excess supply for every American to receive the shot, Hocker has been eligible for months and his decision may cost lives

Your existence may have cost lives. You may have given someone the flu and they died.

You got vaccinated? Good for you. Now leave other people alone.

You can also spread the virus, you know, you arrogant turd?

Experts have concluded that Cole Hocker will kill at least 500 grandmas during his stay in Tokyo due to being unvaxxed.

Number one rule:

Don't feed the trolls! 😂😂😂

While I understand and don’t totally disagree, the problem I have with even that thought process is that by the time you roll that out everywhere, enough time will have passed for further mutations that may (or may not) be capable of breaking through vaccine protection.

What I do not understand whatsoever is how many folks that were soooo distrusting of Trump are sooooo pushing the vaccine. Look into what HIS FDA commissioner is doing now. Look into his vaccine czars financial ties. Look into these things and ask yourself a critical question of whether there COULD have been perverse incentives at play to steer toward ONLY novel vaccine tech being allowed?

Furthermore, quit pretending that just because it’s a “vaccine” it’s the same thing as what most are familiar with. You can line a rocket ship up next to a Prius and call them both “vehicles” because they take you from Point A to Point B. But to pretend they are the same thing is disingenuous. Yet many of you are doing this with the term “vaccine” with NO consideration given to the differences in technology.

Nice ad hominems, do you want to speak to the science of why you’re wrong now?

Every time rojo or a mod makes the thread I become less surprised with the state of this site concerning all things COVID.

Some people have posted about the specifics of him being an Olympian. I get that the Olympics are a unique situation. I didn't really address that in the piece as i didn't want it to be too long or too complicated. If I was Tokyo, I would have required vaccination of all athletes. My column though is that as a country, the adults who really care about saving lives and science should be arguing PASSIONATELY that we vaccinate the world's elderly before we do people like Cole Hocker. Instead grown adults are ripping a guy who is proud to represent the US of A. Imagine if instead of ripping Hocker - or me - you actually tried to get the govts and pharmaceutical companies of the world to focus on those most vulnerable to Covid. What's scary is people think what I wrote is an anti-vaccine thread. I'm very much pro-vaccine. I just know it helps the elderly a hell of a lot more than the young as the young have immune systems that can normally fight off Covid.

YOu make a good point. It is almost religious for some people. I mean I have the stats. Not that many people are on this thread but somehow it's generated 4 pages of posts in like an hour.

Great post.

I don't get how people think this is going to end.

I didn't start an anti-vaccine thread. I simply said we should vaccine the world's elderly before we vaccinate people like Hocker. I'm very much pro vaccine.

I've repeatedly asked on here if people think I should get a third shot. I've got pfizer. Should I also get Johnson and Johnson.

And yes, I'm being selfish. Guilty as charged.

I totally agree with Rojo and his line of reasoning on Hocker and vaccines. Here are some other things I also totally agree with:

- it's wrong to eat more than the smallest amount necessary to survive, given that there are starving people elsewhere

- it's wrong to get a casual drink with friends knowing there are people dying of thirst in India

- it's wrong for relatively healthy Americans to get an annual medical check-up while there are many in the world who have no access to medical services

- it's wrong to own and operate a car when many poor people around the world are lucky if they even have a rickety bicycle

- after having your first child, it's wrong to keep any subsequent children given that there are many deserving childless couples around the world

- it's wrong the way many Americans hoard money in their retirement accounts when many poor people in the world could use that money RIGHT NOW

- although he is a hero for his vaccine stance, it was wrong of Cole Hocker to accept a spot on the Olympic team when he could have turned it down and allowed it to go to someone more deserving (preferably an elderly Indian woman)

- Hocker is also a heel for accepting an athletic scholarship to Oregon, when his family could probably have easily afforded to send him there, thus freeing up that money to pay for a scholarship for a poor Indian woman

rojo wrote:

Some people have posted about the specifics of him being an Olympian. I get that the Olympics are a unique situation. I didn't really address that in the piece as i didn't want it to be too long or too complicated. If I was Tokyo, I would have required vaccination of all athletes.

My column though is that as a country, the adults who really care about saving lives and science should be arguing PASSIONATELY that we vaccinate the world's elderly before we do people like Cole Hocker.

.

This is inherently flawed logic. This has no basis in any sort of science AT ALL

Rojo, please stick to running and not giving incorrect advice that goes against every reputable immunologist, virologist and epidemologist . As with every other infectious disease, in order to make a dent in transmission all people who can be vaccinated should be vaccinated. There is absolutely no controversy about this. In order to stop a pandemic virus we need to see high vaccine uptake because that is the only way to stop viral replication, pure and simple.

1. Young healthy people can, and do, spread disease, and they too can die - not just old folks.

2. Unvaccinated people are the primary source of variants -- irrespective of age -- and those variants can be more deadly than the original virus -- for everyone.

3. There are plenty of long term effects of COVID-19 disease *especially heart and lung disease* and this is being seen in many athletes, irrespective of the severity of their infection.

Rojo this take is inaccurate and irresponsibly journalism. Of the many, many logic flaws in your article the most glaring to me is asserting the false premise that it is selfish to get vaccinated rather than "redirecting" your vaccination to an elderly person. This is NOT how it works, and spreading this information can cause INCREASED DEATHS now and down the line. There is not a vaccine shortage at this point and there are enough available vaccines for EVERYONE to be vaccinated. The "Science" you recommend we follow URGES everyone eligible to be vaccinated to get vaccinated AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. The CDC specifically says it is NOT HELPFUL to not get vaccinated to allow others more vulnerable to, because at this time there are accessible vaccinations for EVERYONE. I hope this does not get buried in the thread or at least enough people know that Rojo is talking out of his ass. It is one thing to make up BS arguments regarding track and field, but to do so about a public health crisis in which hundreds of thousands of lives can lost is reprehensible.

Here are the FACTS: This vaccine still does NOT have full FDA approval.

Those shaming people for not getting a vaccine are the MOST EVIL types of people. If you are vaccinated then you are immune so it doesn't matter if others aren't. It's nothing more than pathetic virtue signaling.

You cry "my body my choice" in favor of abortion (which is ACTUALLY MURDER) but you shame someone for using that same reasoning for not wanting a vaccine.

Absolutely idiotic take rojo

ImpaIa31 wrote:

ragingclue wrote:

While it’s his choice whether or not to get vaccinated, it’s still wrong not to because he can contract and spread the virus to more immunocompromised individuals. Doubtful he’s wearing a mask in public so odds are he is helping to spread it. The whole argument about saving the vaccines for the elderly is BS as the vast majority of elderly in the states are already vaccinated and have been eligible since January. The US has had excess supply for every American to receive the shot, Hocker has been eligible for months and his decision may cost lives

Your existence may have cost lives. You may have given someone the flu and they died.

You got vaccinated? Good for you. Now leave other people alone.

You can also spread the virus, you know, you arrogant turd?

The vaccinated are far less likely to spread COVID.

It sounds like you are suddenly concerned with the individual's obligation to prevent spread of deadly viruses.

I assume you are vaccinated? Or maybe you're just arguing in bad faith and hypocritical... hmmmm?

Your argument is as much backed by science as is the x100 arguments against it, also backed by science.

The spread of the virus and new variants has been up for debate for a long time, with science on both sides, more data coming in and still not everyone is in agreement about the best strategy to curb the virus.

Much like the type of vaccine itself. Which is best? The right answer is all of them and any that can slow it down. Same as who to vaccinate first… the old because they are the most vulnerable or the young and healthy who spread it by a factor of 10 so that it eventually finds everyone? The right answer is everyone who has access to a vaccine should get one, if at all you really believe in it?

One thing that slightly bothers me is your America centric way of looking at this and saying all he would have to do is self isolate upon return anyway right? Who’s to say he doesn’t take the virus from the us to Japan and effect the people there? But so long as it’s a one way, América first, thing your argument is okay..