This whole Drew Hunter vs. Luis Grijalva thing...

If you think running 13:07 all of a sudden makes him a world beater, you are crazy. Chelimo runs some of the goofiest races I have ever seen. He may get angry and start weaving around on the track like he did at Terre Haute last month. I guess you think Ferlic is now automatically a world beater? Nope. It will be 5 years removed from his silver medal at that point. If Hunter wins in 13:07 and runs to his max, he probably has no medal chance in the Olympics. Do you even follow the sport or simple logic? I think most would agree that Hunter could win in 13:07 but that only puts him about 25th in the world. The Ugandans are not going to let the race go tactical. The Americans will finish 200 meters behind the winner. No American will be a world beater next year.

You're so obviously out to lunch it's ridiculous. If Hunter wins the US Olympic Trials in 13:07, he should be top 10 at the Olympics. My point is that he could run 13:07 in a PERFECT time trial based on his talent level. NOT that he could run that fast in a tactical race and still win.

So your position, and I want to make sure this is on the record, is that this crop of 5k runners is the weakest it's been in quite some time for the USA? You believe that?

I don't remember the last time Ferlic beat Chelimo at the Olympic Trials 5k.

World lead

2016 12:59

2017 12:55

2018 12:43

2019 12:52

2020 12:35

You should follow the sport. Comparing the US against the US is not how weak or strong is defined when it comes to predicting Olympic medals. The US has fallen behind over the past 5 years. Those are just statistics. It is a bit harder for a 13:07 US guy to medal against guys who have PRs 30 seconds faster than 10 seconds faster.

Thorvaldson is the New FastTuohy wrote:

World lead

2016 12:59

2017 12:55

2018 12:43

2019 12:52

2020 12:35

You should follow the sport. Comparing the US against the US is not how weak or strong is defined when it comes to predicting Olympic medals. The US has fallen behind over the past 5 years. Those are just statistics. It is a bit harder for a 13:07 US guy to medal against guys who have PRs 30 seconds faster than 10 seconds faster.

It is good to get confirmation that you totally out to lunch, thank you. I mean, you are so new to this sport that you are using world leads as an indicator of competition depth.

Do you know what the US Trials record is for the 5k (not just the Olympic trials, but every US championship)? It's 13:08. So yes, if Drew Hunter breaks the US Trials 5k record this year, I'm going to expect him to get a top 10 finish at the Olympics.

You're honestly just not knowledgeable enough to have this debate.

Top 10 maybe. World beater or medal. Heck no.

Thorvaldson is the New FastTuohy wrote:

Top 10 maybe. World beater or medal. Heck no.

Exactly. I guess we have different definitions of "world beater", then.

world-beater

n

a person or thing that surpasses all others in its category; champion

So it really means the Gold Medalist but I view all 3 medalists as world beaters.

Thorvaldson is the New FastTuohy wrote:

world-beater

n

a person or thing that surpasses all others in its category; champion

So it really means the Gold Medalist but I view all 3 medalists as world beaters.

I think of it as beating top level athletes from around the world. If you make the finals and come in the top half of the finals, then you've beaten some pretty good athletes (including many Kenyans and Ethiopians along the way). It's definitely a colloquial term on this board, so I'm certainly using it incorrectly.

factssshss wrote:

Seppo Kaitenenn wrote:

What do we know about Hunter's and Grijalva's mileage right now?

I don't think Tinman Elite runs enough volume.

Tinman Elite is grating for sure, but Hunter just set a PR in the 5k. He's clearly making progress. I don't think he should be getting trashed this way.

Luis is high mileage like the majority of NAU.

Drew and the rest of Tinman don't follow the Lydiard model (not to say NAU completely follows it, they just follow it more closely).

Drew is in 70’s to low 80’s from his Strava.

Luis is usually over 100, around 110.

dhehsisub wrote:

factssshss wrote:

Luis is high mileage like the majority of NAU.

Drew and the rest of Tinman don't follow the Lydiard model (not to say NAU completely follows it, they just follow it more closely).

Drew is in 70’s to low 80’s from his Strava.

Luis is usually over 100, around 110.

Yet somehow Luis is healthier than Drew. It's because Tinman doesn't know what he's doing.

70s to 80s for a professional 5k runner is way too low. Then again, Drew might have more room to improve than Luis. I wonder if Tinman has a long-term plan to build Drew up to 100+ in the next few years.

I would guess not, based on the mileage the rest of Tinman Elite puts in, but we will see.

Seppo Kaitenenn wrote:

70s to 80s for a professional 5k runner is way too low. Then again, Drew might have more room to improve than Luis. I wonder if Tinman has a long-term plan to build Drew up to 100+ in the next few years.

I would guess not, based on the mileage the rest of Tinman Elite puts in, but we will see.

No, it isn't. That's on the lower side for 5k, but not crazy low given his background as a 1500 guy. One size doesn't fit all!

Seppo Kaitenenn wrote:

70s to 80s for a professional 5k runner is way too low. Then again, Drew might have more room to improve than Luis. I wonder if Tinman has a long-term plan to build Drew up to 100+ in the next few years.

I would guess not, based on the mileage the rest of Tinman Elite puts in, but we will see.

I doubt it. I don't see any Tinman coached athlete running that much. The marathoners may run a bit over 100 mpw for a few weeks but most of the year they are in the 80's.

While I agree that Drew should be running more, somewhere in the 90's is likely sufficient. Most of the top 5,000m athletes in the world are running around 90 miles per week +/- a few miles here and there. A few extra doubles and a slightly longer long run should be fine.