Matt Hart's new Nike book is great - Salazar once tried to kiss Kara Goucher and said Solinsky ran 26:59 because of thyroid meds

it's hard to overstate how predictable "the woman was sleeping around, the woman was the problem, the woman is to blame" statements are. This is categorically untrue.

I’m pretty sure Dr. Brown, the endocrinologist who prescribed all these runner with hormone therapy has taken an anatomy and physiology class.

He is facing bans and sanctions because of his unethical practices.

So is Salazar.

That’s why he is currently banned!

It’s not a coincidence that all those top American runners saw the same endocrinologist, got the same hormone therapy treatment.

In addition to it helping the athletes recover, it kept their body fat low.

Solinski ate a huge amount of food, even the even before his sub 27 10,000m, yet he kept his body fat low.

right said freddy wrote:

I’m pretty sure Dr. Brown, the endocrinologist who prescribed all these runner with hormone therapy has taken an anatomy and physiology class.

He is facing bans and sanctions because of his unethical practices.

So is Salazar.

That’s why he is currently banned!

It’s not a coincidence that all those top American runners saw the same endocrinologist, got the same hormone therapy treatment.

In addition to it helping the athletes recover, it kept their body fat low.

Solinski ate a huge amount of food, even the even before his sub 27 10,000m, yet he kept his body fat low.

Great reading comprehension!

I was referring to the posters, not the doctors.

You begin your post with "Clearly", but nothing that follows makes it clear that your statement about Kara's allegation is correct.

Frankly, other than potential slander it really doesn't matter. There are plenty of other reasons to consider AlSal a cheat, jerk and sleezeball without that incident.

I’m indifferent one way or the other in regards to the whole NOP story but you’re making some pretty crazy accusations without offering an ounce of evidence or anecdotes.

science is right wrote:

Bob Kennedy

Galen Rupp

Ryan Hall

Matt Tegenkamp

Chris Solinski

Alberto Salazar

All on thyroid hormone! What does that tell you?

For morons, I’ll spell it out:

For the last three generations of US distance, the most competitive runners on the world stage where on thyroid hormone.

They all used performance enhancing drugs. Banned or not, they clearly appear to be performance enhancing, and a prerequisite for sub 13 5000m running.

Caffeine is performance enhancing. So is sugar.

WADA has looked specifically at thyroid hormones finding insufficient evidence for ergogenic effect.

Thyroid hormone is a false issue.

God and country wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

Thyroid hormones are not banned by WADA -- from an anti-doping perspective, this red-herring is a non-issue.

Legal does not equal ethical.

If it is not performance enhancing, and not banned, what exactly is the ethical issue?

How is it different than say, iron supplements or multi-vitamins?

There is certainly a huge stigma surrounding Thyroid Meds. This is why athletes will not come forward and admit that they take them.

Desiree Linden has been on thyroid meds for years but never a whisper from Hansons about it. Why? Because they don’t want to be lumped into the Nike stuff and considered dirty.

blame game wrote:

There is certainly a huge stigma surrounding Thyroid Meds.

And rightfully so. Meds are for sick people, not for athletes who want to lose body fat.

Basically these athletes are picking a corrupt doctor to get diagnosed with hypothyroidism so that they can get hormone treatment. Huge difference to taking a vitamin C just in case.

Remember "Dr. Brown treats runners for a disorder not known to afflict them. His patients' medal count: 15 Olympic golds" from WSJ? Yes - that corrupt doctor where our athletes flew to from all over the country, who is now banned for "orchestrating and facilitating prohibited doping conduct while acting ... as a paid consultant for the NOP on performance enhancement and as physician for numerous athletes in the NOP".

Among the three anti-doping rule violations committed by this cheating doctor we find "Tampering with patient records" - sickening, that what this doctor is. So glad none of my kids went there.

No wonder that athletes do not want to be associated with him anymore. But of course people like that have their defenders on letsrun, including the usual suspects.

rekrunner wrote:

God and country wrote:

Legal does not equal ethical.

If it is not performance enhancing, and not banned, what exactly is the ethical issue?

How is it different than say, iron supplements or multi-vitamins?

Why are you condoning quackery? It is unethical because it was supposedly performance enhancing, when it just messes up a healthy person's natural thyroid function.

asfafasf wrote:

Why are you condoning quackery? It is unethical because it was supposedly performance enhancing, when it just messes up a healthy person's natural thyroid function.

Am I condoning quackery? I asked why it is unethical.

WADA doesn't consider it performance enhancing.

If it is supposed to be performance enhancing, but WADA doesn't consider it so, then what is the ethical issue again?

Caffeine is performance enhancing, and not banned, nor considered unethical.

blame game wrote:

There is certainly a huge stigma surrounding Thyroid Meds. This is why athletes will not come forward and admit that they take them.

Desiree Linden has been on thyroid meds for years but never a whisper from Hansons about it. Why? Because they don’t want to be lumped into the Nike stuff and considered dirty.

More likely they are just as guilty. Hansons sent Neely Spence to Dr. Brown and of course had no problem with Ritz abusing thyroid meds and doing infusions. They also didn’t bat an eye at Ritz putting his own athletes, like Leah O’Conner, on thyroid meds. All these coaches are the same and should be considered dirty.

rekrunner wrote:

asfafasf wrote:

Why are you condoning quackery? It is unethical because it was supposedly performance enhancing, when it just messes up a healthy person's natural thyroid function.

Am I condoning quackery? I asked why it is unethical.

WADA doesn't consider it performance enhancing.

If it is supposed to be performance enhancing, but WADA doesn't consider it so, then what is the ethical issue again?

Caffeine is performance enhancing, and not banned, nor considered unethical.

Doctor Brown is regarded as a quack on this message board is he not? I agree with this. And his treatment of runners is unethical because he was messing up their endocrine system by diagnosing them all as hypothyroid and giving them injections.

And I don't believe caffeine is performance enhancing. Natural adrenalin is the real stuff.

asfafasf wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

Am I condoning quackery? I asked why it is unethical.

WADA doesn't consider it performance enhancing.

If it is supposed to be performance enhancing, but WADA doesn't consider it so, then what is the ethical issue again?

Caffeine is performance enhancing, and not banned, nor considered unethical.

Doctor Brown is regarded as a quack on this message board is he not? I agree with this. And his treatment of runners is unethical because he was messing up their endocrine system by diagnosing them all as hypothyroid and giving them injections.

And I don't believe caffeine is performance enhancing. Natural adrenalin is the real stuff.

I can't speak for this message board, or their qualifications.

The post I responded to singled out athletes, and not the doctor: Hall, Rupp, Tegencamp, Solinski and Kennedy, asking about a drug cloud.

You forgot to add Ritzenhimer to the list of US sub 13 5000m who took thyroid hormone.

If you don’t understand the difference between a banned doctor and a banned coach injecting athletes with hormones and someone drinking a caffeinated energy drink, you should really just keep your stupid mouth closed.

ritz too wrote:

If you don’t understand the difference between a banned doctor and a banned coach injecting athletes with hormones and someone drinking a caffeinated energy drink, you should really just keep your stupid mouth closed.

But they were not banned for thyroid hormones.

None of these were the questions I asked -- what is the ethical issue for athletes to take a substance that is not banned by WADA and not considered by WADA to be performance enhancing.

rekrunner wrote:

None of these were the questions I asked -- what is the ethical issue for athletes to take a substance that is not banned by WADA and not considered by WADA to be performance enhancing.

Classic downplaying. You are obfuscating again. They did more than just "take a substance that is not banned"; they went out of their way to fly to a special corrupt doctor (who got later banned for tampering, among other anti-doping rule violations) to get hormone treatment, despite being healthy, just to be able to run faster. The fact that these athletes prefer to not talk about it speaks for itself, no matter how much you imply that there is nothing to see here.

rekrunner wrote:

science is right wrote:

Bob Kennedy

Galen Rupp

Ryan Hall

Matt Tegenkamp

Chris Solinski

Alberto Salazar

All on thyroid hormone! What does that tell you?

For morons, I’ll spell it out:

For the last three generations of US distance, the most competitive runners on the world stage where on thyroid hormone.

They all used performance enhancing drugs. Banned or not, they clearly appear to be performance enhancing, and a prerequisite for sub 13 5000m running.

Caffeine is performance enhancing. So is sugar.

WADA has looked specifically at thyroid hormones finding insufficient evidence for ergogenic effect.

Thyroid hormone is a false issue.

You have responded to others but you have not denied that thyroid pills or thyroid injections lower body fat for sedentary individuals and athletes. Thyroid injections lower body more quickly than any banned diet pill supplement. Since most elite women runners, 1500m to Marathon tend to weigh less than 1.9 pounds per inch; since most elite male runners, 1500m to Marathon tend to weigh less than 2.1 pounds per inch, how can thyroid pills or thyroid injections not be performance enhancing?