A closer look at EPO-era performances

I was not suggesting that.

Everyone's looking for an edge wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

I note here, that many of the popular beliefs about EPO necessarily causing the best performances in the EPO-era, are not a result of your six-step process, or any other established scientifically valid process.

Are you suggesting that the "clean" version of a EPO positive or ABP sanctioned athlete is better than the "doped" version?

That's not entirely accurate, but in any case, "Trying to say" something is not "trying to teach a theory". I was called a bad teacher because "Rocket Fuel Rick" failed to understand why I considered someone like Estévez second class -- a reason that is unambiguously explained in the very first post. This does not seem related in any way to "EPO doesn't work with white people."

teacher teacher you can't teach us wrote:

Yep, you're trying to say EPO doesn't work with white people. Your " who me?" act is transparent.

Except studies and performances show EPO works. You just don't understand basic physiology. Your questions are awkward because the actual experts are baffled how you could be so ill informed and think you actually know more than people with real life degrees and lab experience.

We run faster by being able to flame through our energy at a higher rate of speed. Just like cars with big engines.

thats another nice set of lies.

and i did email wejo and rojo, they both said they had no idea who was deleting my threads, replies and comments or who blocked me, or why all the sudden my handles were under the "registered user"

he said only him and rojo had no idea how that happened because they said only they had the power and authority to do all of that.

so there we have a dilemma now dont we? you admit you are british then deny, you have been outed that your name is gary, you deny, you claim EPO and PEDs dont work, and magically another handle shows up defending you and saying the same thing...pariah.

you defend paula up and down and somehow know super personal stuff about her life, training, doctors, injuries, blood values. etc etc etc. and then deny that you are her husband, you have even said you have never met her. so if thats true then you are a level 12 stalker creeper to the max.

you claim to know lots about professional level distance running, yet claim your a pathetic hobby jogger.

what am i fabricating? i have multiple times done the reading, the research and found all sorts of info on EPO, those who have been banned or busted for some amount of time. marion jones to ramzi, brahim boulami, countless kenyans, jerome young, dwain chambers, antoine pettigrew, ethiopians.....only to have you, pariah and renato make the excuse that everyone i found was "sub elite". there are WR holders and multiple gold medal winners and people who have made a fortune in track and field and you want to sarcastically call me fabricating? and mock me with this whole "those are sub elite"? attitude. or pull the....."well if you exclude the moroccans, sumgong, and sprinters......who has been busted on EPO that ran fast...oh and cacho doesnt count either"

you are so annoying. deleting everything i put forth and then mocking me. how the hell can i fight against that? knowing full well you will delete this as well before the end of the day.

why dont you answer these questions

-how do you know so much personal stuff about paula?

-how do you know so much about how EPO works? are you a hematologist? how do you have all this insider knowledge about certain peoples blood results?

-how do you know wejo's secret handle?

-how is it when i reply to you or agrue that EPO doesnt work my comments get deleted?

-how is it you claim im fabricating? im not the one throwing out everyone but the russian race walkers in this EPO does/doesnt work bullsh*t argument.

last question

-if EPO doesnt work, then tell me why have so many people been busted for it? if it doesnt work then why ban people for using it? and if you are truly the SAVIOR....then what is it you want on this end game? that EPO is taken off the banned list and people reinstated and medals and money paid back and WRs returned? because your argument not only is f*cking annoying as hell and full of lies, it gets nowhere. what are you hoping to get from all this? tell me? cause it isnt cleaning up the sport thats for sure.

so please

# 1) stop deleting my comments, threads and replies...and i would greatly appreciate having my handle "mindweak" back

#2) how about answer those questions

Please read all of my denials above again so I don't have to retype them.

I have actually answered many of these questions before, the first few times you asked them. If I answer them now, will you actually read them, and remember them, so I don't have to answer them again? Because that's one reason I hesitate to answer them. I hope you can read these answers before a mod deletes them.

I think once I did call you "weak mind", but generally I don't mock you, and lately I've ignored you, but your direct personal attacks are getting too much -- it looks like you are fighting "that"by accusing me of problems you are having with the mods, and by making things up about me and repeating them every chance you get.

You are fabricating that I ever said I was Gary, I ever said I was British, that I'm a mod, and that I am deleting your posts, and that wejo called me out. Either you are doing this on purpose, because you are annoyed, and are trying to annoy me, or you have serious comprehension issues.

Everything I know about Paula, I learned from public sources, mostly in the last three years. She gave a lot of interviews, Dr. Jones wrote a paper about her. I actually did not read her biography, and I'm not that interested to.

Much of what I know about EPO and blood, I learned from public sources in the last three years.

For the fifth time, wejo said "email me at

wejo@letsrun.com

" -- I learned it the same way you did it.

For the umpteenth time, I don't know why your comments get deleted. I can only speculate they generally lack civility. Think ventolin x10.

You fabricate things about me that I never said, or didn't happen.

I even threw out Russian race-walkers, when trying to keep the topic on non-African lack of distance running progression -- because of a performance pattern that doesn't fit. This was me moving the goalposts back where they started, or de-spinning the spin.

For the umpteenth time, people get busted for EPO simply because they get caught. People take EPO because they believe it will help them. It should stay banned because WADA covers more sports than running.

My end game is for people to know how to put things in perspective.

I don't want any of these things: "that EPO is taken off the banned list and people reinstated and medals and money paid back and WRs returned?"

EPO is banned, should stay banned, and athletes should be punished to the full extent permitted. I'm not against increasing the punishments, and increased testing, and improved sensitivity of tests.

I guess one possible outcome is that if everyone believes, like you, that EPO will give them 3-4%, more people will take it, but if everyone sees that it hasn't really ever worked for Americans, Europeans, Russians, Australians, because only 29 male non-Africans in all of recorded history have run faster than 1990, why would they take such a great risk for such a low expected return?

#1) I promise not delete any of your comments, threads, and replies. This is an easy promise for me to keep. Email

letsrun@letsrun.com

and explain to them you want "mindweak" back. I don't know if that will work, but it's the best I can advise.

#2) I answered the questions

Now please, I would greatly appreciate that you stop repeating all the fabrications about me -- give us a link or it didn't happen.

i had multiple links that were deleted over and over and over. but i have learned. now i have a word doc that is continuously growing with things that SOMEHOW get deleted, wonder how that keeps happening.

but i will copy and paste yours from now on as well whenever they have evidence you will later deny. but im sure you just deny that as well.

from here on out i will just wish for your absence on this site as you are the most annoying troll of all time and a level 12 stalker of paula. #metoo doesnt seem to matter to you huh?

since you claim i make up everything and you NEVER lie, then i MUST believe that huh?

your a hobby jogger that stalks paula but only from "public sources", you are not a hematologist or any MD of any kind and claim all your info again from "public sources", your name isnt gary, and you are not british and you have no idea who the brojos are.

so can you please do like vent and just shut up for say i dont know, 30 days? and when you come back dont start another thread on EPO? can you do that mr know it all hobby jogger paula stalker?

hobby joggers that run slow have no concept of professional running so just stick to your 25min 5k color runs, and stay off this site please.

Rekrunner is annoying with his dogmatic approach to defending blatant dopers

Rjm/weakermind is infinitely more annoying with his spamming of posts and multiple aliases

Gary, why can't you consider that maybe an exceptionally low number of top class white dudes participating in running have taken EPO?

Surely you must see that natural sub 13 ability and thus any potential of medalling is incredibly low.

i dont have multiple aliases.

how am i spamming? fine you think me saying gary/pariah/rekrunner is full of sh*t is annoying? fine go ahead, believe that africans are so superior than white dudes and give up running, then go inform the japanese they will never be number one either. soon it will just be kenya vs ethiopia and who will care then? it will be like pakistan vs india in cricket.

give in to this idea the PEDs and EPO dont work. that WADA should disband, call me annoying and accuse me of multiple aliases.

my guess is "snapchat" is yet another handle that gary wants to use to make me look like the loser. nice try gary.

i have used 3 handles total in my existence on posting on LR, like since 2004 or so

"i agree with spencer" which was blocked for a number of months for getting into it with ventolion^3....who eventually got banned and came back as calculo....and like rekrunner denies he is gary, vent denies he was vent. for the longest time i didnt post cause i was under the impression that the only way i could post was if i had a registered name with email.

at first i did the "asdkfhalsdkhfajsdfh" style, but being without an identity on this site is like peeling it back to phone s*x...not that cool. so i just read and read and read, hesitant to voice anything cause i didnt feel like there was much cause to get involved in the racist, homophobic, repub/lib, anti/pro gun, pro life/abortion etc.....but i finally had enough of Renato defending kenyans and lying about how EPO doesnt work. that sh*t really pissed me off so i chose a handle, one that made a mockery of his snake oil bullsh*t claim...he called anyone taking EPO "mindweak" so that was the handle i chose.

at first renato didnt even think i was worth anything, but soon he had no choice but to confront me cause i was showing pages over and over of kenyans who made HUGE improvents who later got busted for EPO, and moroccans etc. he called me stupid he called me "mindweak" he tried to mock me. then like gary/rekrunner he kept changing his lie, soon it was EPO works but not on kenyans, then it was EPO doesnt work on highly trained kenyans, then it was EPO doesnt work on highly trained kenyans who are top tier, not sub elite like jeptoo and sumgong. cause he said they were not top tier, and got mindweak. this really pissed me off cause like gary/rekrunner he kept on changing his lie and deny deny deny. somewhere around then rekrunner came into the mix and was renato's disciple. rekrunner defended renato to the max and used mutiple aliases while doing so. eventually i was banned for 2 weeks and "mindweak" was taken from me and is claimed to be registered.

so i came back after my 2 week grounding, the whole time rekrunner and his aliases talking sh*t "hahah where is mind weak? he has nothing to say now it seems what a loser" no dumba$$ i was banned cause you are protected and i was told be the brojos i cant mock you or renato. i came up with "m!ndweak" and i went right into mocking, calling renato the savior and rekrunner his holy prophet. no insults nope, just mocking how amazing they are and all that. i got permanently banned. i emailed the brojos and demanded an explanation.

they claimed they had no idea how that happened and that they would look into rekrunner and vent/calculos offensive rants. i think vent/calculo is banned since he has been silenced for a long time...but rekrunner is still here having a field day with this EPO bullsh*t. the brojos informed me that ONLY they had the power and authority to ban someone, and they have no idea how "mindweak" and "m!ndweak" are blocked from me using them. they claim that mods only have the ability to tell them about offensive posts or comments but dont have the power to delete. they apologized and unbanned me.

i love track and field and yet i am mocked by so called "hobby jogger" cause his OPINION is "EPO and PEDs DONT WORK"

and it seems like its me, subway and casual that are the only people on here with common sense. the rest of you are either HUGE noobs that dont know sh*t from sh*t or it is gary/pariah/rekrunner using 200 handles to keep themselves feeling like they are the hero.

EPO works, PEDs work. take the money from track and field and no incentive to use PEDs, no incentive, slower times.

or take garys side. EPO and PEDs dont work, africans are soooooo much more better, whiteys need to just quit. Coe and Paula are heroes cause they are white but they made it further than most cause they are just so darn hard working

You started off as rjm33 and claiming to be a doctor who has examined thousands of blood samples

Then you used multiple aliases to troll doping threads and you seem to be obsessed with Paula Radcliffe

Shalane Flanagan and Amy Cragg are in the sauce too. A win in a major and a 6+ minute PR in the marathon? Yes, it's the Colorado thin air.

Run higher! wrote:

Shalane Flanagan and Amy Cragg are in the sauce too. A win in a major and a 6+ minute PR in the marathon? Yes, it's the Colorado thin air.

Say what? Flanagan? Cragg?

Could also be mother time, at the end of a long career. Paula ran cross-country and track for 11 years, at world level, before turning to the marathon in 2002. In 3 1/2 years, she ran 6 marathons, not including a DNF in Athens. At 32 years old, for a girl who picked up running at 7, and competed almost 15 years at the world level, this probably would have been a good time to hang up the spikes, especially in hindsight. Not surprisingly, she started struggling with injuries, not to mention taking two timeouts for babies. In those "7 years of trying", she didn't compete for nearly two years in 2006 and 2007, until September 2007, and for 19 months before coming back in 2011. Her 2007 and 2008 marathons were in New York, not a fast course. (NB: all this information can be found on her Wikipedia page) Or it could be that an athlete who was sophisticated enough to game the blood testing 7-8 years before it was put into place, was frightened by her 2005 sample, which was well within 2005 suspicion limits (off-score limit was 122 in 2005), and an improved urine test for EPO, that was still easy to beat with micro-dosing EPO in the veins, going to Kenya, and, in the worst case, paying off IAAF President Diack.

casual obsever wrote:

Could be a coincidence that she never broke 2:22 again in seven years of trying, after she was flagged and target tested for the second time in 2005 (coincidentally coinciding with the introduction of the enhanced EPO test).

Not fact or opinion, but baseless rumor. It started as a joke and has taken a life of its own. In what turned out to be a lengthy Paula thread, I was defending the IAAF and anti-doping science, and not Paula per se. But since she was a big part of the story, someone decided that only Gary would defend Paula that much. To be honest, I had to look up who Gary Lough was at first. I am an American living in Europe, with no special connection to Paula, Gary, any of the brojos, or other letsrun staff.

Lets Think This One Through wrote:

Better than Sherlock wrote:

Rekrunner is Gary Lough, Paula Radcliffe's husband.

How do you know that? Fact or just your opinion? On a previous post or two, rekrunner has said he's an "American living in Europe." Gary Lough is NOT an American living in Europe.

Do you mean me? You said Gary and responded to "Snapchat.." To save you the reply, I could consider it. It seems unprecedented though. Has it happened anywhere else in any sport? And there seem to be no shortage of examples of Olympic and World medalists, but didn't run fast.

A place in Indiana wrote:

Gary(sic), why can't you consider that maybe an exceptionally low number of top class white dudes participating in running have taken EPO?

Surely you must see that natural sub 13 ability and thus any potential of medalling is incredibly low.

"an exceptionally low number of top class white dudes participating in other sports have taken EPO". Stephen Kiprotich, Spanish Marathon Champions in late 1990's. What is the big crackdown?

A place in Indiana wrote:

Has what happened in other sports?

Name some World/Oly champs that didn't run fast. Then consider if they are from before or after the big crackdown.

Blatant dopers should be punished to the fullest extent allowed.

Snapchat.. wrote:

Rekrunner is annoying with his dogmatic approach to defending blatant dopers

Rjm/weakermind is infinitely more annoying with his spamming of posts and multiple aliases

rekrunner wrote:

"an exceptionally low number of top class white dudes participating in other sports have taken EPO".

Stephen Kiprotich, Spanish Marathon Champions in late 1990's.

What is the big crackdown?

A place in Indiana wrote:

Has what happened in other sports?

Name some World/Oly champs that didn't run fast. Then consider if they are from before or after the big crackdown.

Huh? to the first part

The actual test for EPO and the biological passport.

I'm somehow relieved you now believe I'm a 25 minute 5K hobby jogger who stalks Paula from afar, rather than a former 3:34 1500m runner Gary Lough. I didn't say you made up everything, but just a few very specific things about me. I won't go away for 30 days, but I was seriously considering this thread to be my "EPO" swan-song. But then people keep responding to me, caring what I say and caring what I believe, and trying to convince me to change my mind, trying to give me anecdotal proof, asking me to consider anecdotes of slow people as a proxy or substitute, or consider Moroccans, or that Spain is important, then not important, or trying to tell me what it is I'm trying to say, and getting some things fundamentally wrong. The main reason for producing the performance data metrics (see page 1) was to show why I don't believe there can be a strong effect "at the top". I can't believe that a 3-4% drug exists, and yet the first non-African to go sub-27 is Chris Solinsky, post ABP, with similar trends of "why so few by so little" from the men's 1500m to marathon. You can believe what you want to believe, but this historical performance data, is a big reason (among several others) why I don't.