RE: Cheating at Marathons

Henry Sanderson wrote:

Some of you need to quit. You are trying to disparage this woman's name and reputation. Quite an achievement for some anonymous bullies on the internet. Why are you hiding behind usernames and use your real names?

Good question Steve.

Seems running marathons can cost - but friend of mine races cars - he told me he spent more than $20,000 in one race. Guess hobbies are like that, you invest time and money. Try country club membership - personally, don't play golf, but, if I did and enjoyed it, then I'd pay to play. And that money wouldn't even go to charity. I looked at marathons sites and seems nearly all have charities they donate. So, paying entry fee goes to a good cause most time. And have fun running, too!

Henry Sanderson wrote:

Some of you need to quit. You are trying to disparage this woman's name and reputation. Quite an achievement for some anonymous bullies on the internet. Why are you hiding behind usernames and use your real names?

Why are you?

Todd Nicklesonski wrote:

Henry Sanderson wrote:

Some of you need to quit. You are trying to disparage this woman's name and reputation. Quite an achievement for some anonymous bullies on the internet. Why are you hiding behind usernames and use your real names?

Why are you?

This is my real name, son.

I cheated on a test in third grade. Does this count or do I need to go to church to confess?

Henry Sanderson wrote:

This is my real name, son.

Prove it, cos I don't believe you're my Dad.

Like the old saying "if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck & quacks like a duck, common sense says ... it's a duck." And, it doesn't take a huge crowd or lots of deliberating to see whether it's a duck. Same with a cheater...those who saw it, knew it, and called it. Sounds like "duck season" to me!

Yep, sounds like 'Pluck-A-Duck' time.

Henry Sanderson wrote:

Todd Nicklesonski wrote:

Why are you?

This is my real name, son.

Why are you on this site if you've never run a race in your life????

I should clarify...if that's his real name, and he has run a race before, then he is 12 years old now.

As runners, race directors, and fans of the sport, it seems like we each would want to make sure that everyone who crosses a finish line earns the medal they receive. For some, it is not always about how fast they cross the finish line, it's bout the distance they traveled from where they started. To cut off 6 miles of a race and then walk away with a finishers medal that they didn't earn, is wrong. It's a slap in the face of every other participant who put their blood, sweat and tears into the race. If you can't finish the race it's a DNF. Until race directors take a stronger stance on this issue, it's going to take other runners like this individual, to speak up and call out those caught or suspected of cheating. Sure, some might say why bother? Who is it hurting? The simple answer is that it's hurting the integrity of the races and the sport we love. 38 pages on a thread about cheating and apparently there are still a few folks who think this is all about a personal attack by a couple individuals. At what point does common sense kick in and people realize that clearly, some serious questions have been raised. To date, no reasonable explanations or answers have been provided. I think the facts provided must then speak for themselves and each reader can form his or her own opinion on the matter. Maybe it's going to take every RD out there letting every individual know publicly prior to the start of each race that cheating, no matter how small or big, won't be tolerated. I'm not advocating calling out names, but I'm sure that the guilty parties will at least take notice and think twice. If not, then report anything out of the ordinary to the RD at the end of the race. Individually, might not seem like much, but collectively, the pieces of the puzzle will be put together and the true picture will eventually be seen.

The problem is that the finisher medal seekers are now the bulk of race entries so RDs cater to them. There are many examples of races where if you are picked up by the sag wagon, they will drive you to the finish line to get your medal. Cut off times are routinely ignored and the last place person is often given a huge ovation.

A race can be the most poorly organized POS on earth, but if they hand out big finisher medals, they the feedback on sites like MarathonGuide.com will be 5 stars across the board. And a great race that keeps costs low by de-valuing the medals will be crowded out of business soon enough.

The back of the pack are in no way competing in a race, and most of them would be the first to attempt that. They are participants, not athletes. In this context, cheaters like PM are not that surpising. They aren't trying to gain an advantage over another competitor because they are racing anyone. They aren't even racing the clock. They simply want to finish in order to collect the medal and mark one more in the done column.

Excellent point Tyrone.

Well stated. But since these are end of the packers and no one is affected, WHO CARES. I was one of the primary people spearheading the Kip Litton investigation. I provided Mark Springer with a lot of information in that thread. Litton was cheating and taking away people's place on the podium. This person is simply cheating to get a finisher's medal or cheating at her own marathons that nobody else runs. Like you said they are competing against the clock or against other competitors.

The cheating in this case is not simply to get another medal or finish another race. It's intentionally done to gain attention and fame which, in turn, provide monetary gain. A lot of money is involved and it's passing through greasy, cheating hands. That's why people care about this one.

Gavine Stumpinhaw wrote:

The cheating in this case is not simply to get another medal or finish another race. It's intentionally done to gain attention and fame which, in turn, provide monetary gain. A lot of money is involved and it's passing through greasy, cheating hands. That's why people care about this one.

^ This ^

She is asking for money..and receiving money...based on her past accomplishments. SHE CHEATS! She needs to be held accountable. If nothing else, DQ'd from past races and put on notice for future races.

How much money can we really be talking about here? We're talking about the very back of the packers. There is no money to be gained.

Gavine Stumpinhaw wrote:

The cheating in this case is not simply to get another medal or finish another race. It's intentionally done to gain attention and fame which, in turn, provide monetary gain. A lot of money is involved and it's passing through greasy, cheating hands. That's why people care about this one.

The money is in the race fees.

What I don't understand is why piss off your cash cows that ran so many of this events? You don't need the record to hold these events.

For example, this person that runbigfoot keeps mentioning ran over 100 events put on by subject of this thread. Why the supposed falling out?

http://www.marathonmaniacsdb.com/halffanatics/HFMyRaces.asp?hf=3891

The halfs cost $70.00 each.

100x$70=$7000.00. That is from one person.

I have no problem with back of pack people and their motivations to run, walk, finish whatever race they please. I dislike cheating immensely.. the good way imho to report cheating in a forum such as this is to just report the facts - report only publically available information, ie race results, race pics. That is how KL got outed, not by name calling etc.

Here are a few things from the net that I found interesting in this "case"

A posting by Guinness:

The most marathons run on consecutive days by a female is 17 and was achieved by Iranian-born Parvaneh Moayedi (US), who completed all 17 marathons between 21st December 2012 and 6 January 2013 in various races held across Texas, USA.

Parvaneh began by running the 'End of the World' Marathon in Humble, Texas, USA, on 21st December 2012. She completed her seventeenth and final marathon on the last day of the 'I Ran Marathons' Winter Festival in San Antonio, Texas, USA, on 6 January 2013. She completed her fastest marathon on the second day of the aforementioned five day festival, her fourteenth consecutive marathon at that point, registering a time of 4 hours 41 minutes

So.... I googled the results of the fastest recorded race, January 3, 2013:

I Ran Marathons Results 1/3/2013

Marathon M/F Age Time

1 Christopher Knodel M 39 4:23

2 Parvaneh MoayediF 48 4:41

3 Dagmar Knudsen F 51 5:20

4 Trent Morrow M 39 5:31

5 Gholamreza JavidiM 59 6:00

6 Laurence Macon M 67 7:40

7 Jim Simpson M 70 7:40

Ok, no seconds recorded...Ok, maybe Guinness doesnt care that perhaps the participants may have self reported their times or left whenever they felt tlike. Someone had to cosign the veracity of the results submitted to them according to their rules.

Here are the other results. Jan 4:

I Ran Marathons Results 1/4/2013

Marathon M/F Age Time

1 Christopher Knodel M 39 4:41

2 Parvaneh MoayediF 48 4:50

3 Trent Morrow M 39 5:04

4 Dagmar Knudsen F 51 5:17

5 Steve Holehan M 47 5:21

6 Laurence Macon M 67 7:20

Here's from jan 5:

I Ran Marathons Results 1/5/2013

Marathon M/F Age Time

Robert Berger M 56 4:31

Christopher Knodel M 39 4:38

Trent Morrow M 39 5:33

Dagmar Knudsen F 51 6:45

Angela Tortorice F 45 6:45

Parvaneh MoayediF 48 6:18

Laurence Macon M 67 7:11

Terrie Wurzbacher F 64 7:41

Jan 2:

I Ran Marathons Results 1/2/2013

Marathon M/F Age Time

1 Christopher Knodel M 39 4:25

2 Parvaneh MoayediF 48 4:45

3 Dagmar Knudsen F 51 5:43

4 Trent Morrow M 39 5:45

5 Steve Holehan M 47 6:00

6 Laurence Macon M 68 7:19

7 Jim Simpson M 70 7:19

Jan 6:

I Ran Marathons Results 1/6/2013

Marathon M/F Age Time

1 Daniel Santos-CostaM 40 3:44

2 Christopher Knodel M 39 4:21

3 Dagmar Knudsen F 51 4:54

4 IRA GARDNER M 53 5:19

5 Parvaneh MoayediF 48 5:35

6 Trent Morrow M 39 5:38

7 Angela Tortorice F 45 6:56

8 Laurence Macon M 67 7:09