Soup to Nuts - Letsrun Train Me

VF, that's fantastic! (Apologies for losing track of the thread - I'd forgotten you had a race this weekend too..)

I'm watching London right now and have many friends running. The rational part of my brain keeps saying "don't do marathons, one little cold/niggle/fuelling-error and you waste six months" but the emotional part is screaming at me to find one in Oct/Nov ;-)

Exciting to follow the Boston thread and the fantastic performances put up by all.

I'm anxious to hear how PM did as it sounds like ideal conditions to run fast.

A little update, I have decided NOT to run the April 30 HM. I was only interested in running to try and pick up some cash, but they stacked some of the rules against me. First, they classified masters as 45 and older. That puts me in the open category. Plus the entry fee $75.

Add to these factors that I'm going to take the better of this week just to recover from my race on Saturday. If I'm similarly beat up after the April 30 HM, then that just puts an unnecessary dent in my 5k training.

Speaking of that, I think my plan is to commence the next phase starting April 24.

I've also made a determination based on the eye test of me vs. other athletes who finished around me in the HM on Saturday. I'm easily carrying around 15 to 20 lbs more weight than most if not all of those guys. While I'm certainly not fat anymore. Heck, I'm starting to show some definition in my abs. I don't think I'm going to reach my potential weighing in between 165 and 170 lbs. So, I'm going to try and safely lose more weight. Hopefully I can pull this off. 10 lbs at least. It might take me that whole summer, especially considering that I don't want to lose training time to do it. In the long run, the lower weight is going to help with the injuries as well.

I'm going to have really think about what I do for weight training also. Compared to other runners, I really do still look like a linebacker (American Football)... A lot of weight in my upper body muscles. I'm not going to forego that type of training but I need to cater it to lean muscle maintenance and strength with out adding any size.

I'm rambling.

Hope PM had a great race. Let me know.

PM ran 3:17:09 he was 1:27 at the half.

I know Jon won't be 100% happy but I for one am very relieved; he left my place pretty late on Tuesday night, with a 4 hour drive ahead of him, and I was getting quite worried that he hadn't popped up online since!

I was still reeling from the speeds at London, but Boston is simply mindboggling.

I ran a 1:44 a few months ago and then went 15:46 two days ago...I stopped at mile six though of the Halfie cause I was doing terrible and was really sick (but had already purchased plane ticket so I felt compelled to race) then I waited for my dad and jogged in with him.

I ran 1:18:4x in high school when I was a 16:40's runner.

I haven't read the whole thread but good to see a dinosaur can run fast when starting so late in life. :P

F*ck the haters.

Impossible Dream wrote:

Speaking of that, I think my plan is to commence the next phase starting April 24.

...

In the long run, the lower weight is going to help with the injuries as well.

....

I'm going to have really think about what I do for weight training also. Compared to other runners, I really do still look like a linebacker (American Football)

It's a smart call to withdraw from the half. You already have a really good 5k and half marathon under your belt.

I think the absolute priority now has to be the lower leg issues. I would suggest you don't give yourself a set schedule for next week just yet. Build up the running, at easy pace, adding a bit each time unless there is a reaction, and taking a rest day (from impact at least) every 2-4 days, and don't worry about whether it takes one week or two weeks or three. If possible use soft surfaces (grass, track, treadmill). Once you can run with no reaction, then a couple of light drills sessions and hills are probably the next step. I strongly suspect it was fast work on roads, and in particular a hard downhill 5k, which tipped things over.

By the way I just got back from a coach education talk on injuries, and the therapist kept stressing that Achilles tendinopathy only get better if you take away the shock-load. You can often get away with weights, non-impact exercises, or slower running on softer surfaces.

As for the weight, I'm in the same boat. I lost weight until end Feb, then have been level for 2 months, amazingly only gaining one pound with a week of hotel buffets and plentiful cold beers - a vice I doubt you share! But I still need to lose a bit more (now=160, target=154 or 70kg). I would however say that it's less of a problem at 5000m than half-marathon, and you might just be equipped to run a great 400 or 1500...

Yeah, you're probably right about the comeback to training Euro. I'm going to play it by ear. No running yesterday, in fact the only thing I did yesterday was hang out with the kids and work in my basement. We're ever so close to be finished with the addition!

I definitely won't run today either. Maybe a "hike" on the treadmill.

As to the beers, my wife says I have a drinking problem. I can't finish a beer ;)

Injury front. Its really hard to tell right now because I really am super sore after the HM. It hurts all over, especially after sitting a spell. The most painful spot at the moment is the left shin, probably from walking down the stairs "sideways" and one step at a time. I think I might actually have the achilles issue beat as it has been the least of my worries the last 48 hours.

I had already decided that all my runs are going to be on soft bark chip trails and grass loops until I start feeling 100%. Its going to require a little more planning on my part, but I think I can figure it out.

The diet as of today is under much more scrutiny. I can really restrict the caloric intake right now since I'm not doing anything. I'm going to really monitor everything super closely when I get back to running. I know its going to be a really big challenge to lose more weight, but I'm determined.

BTW - My motivation levels right now are sky high. I'm just hoping my body can get healthy so I can take advantage of new found confidence and motivation.

You idiot wrote:

I haven't read the whole thread but good to see a dinosaur can run fast when starting so late in life. :P

.

Hey Thanks!

I'm sure I'll talk with him when he gets back or he may chime in before that. I think with the half time he was around where he wanted to be but something must have happened. He has faster times ahead.

I'll add that I'm finally begining to run again, turns out I didn't have a sports hernia but a torn lower ab.

Three times a week. Last week was 5 min walk followed by 5 min run for 1:15. This week 3 min walk followed by 7 min runs for 1:15.

I agree - I think Jon will do some really good stuff this year. Last week I was waiting for a 50-year-old to come into the hotel lobby, and this young-looking guy with no grey hairs and no surplus fat whatsoever bounded in; he's in absolutely amazing shape for his age. He also used to be a very good miler, considerably better than me.

That's really good news - and a very smart way to progress back from injury. I presume someone has given you some carefully graduated core exercises to do for the abs?

florida oldtimer wrote:

I'm sure I'll talk with him when he gets back or he may chime in before that. I think with the half time he was around where he wanted to be but something must have happened. He has faster times ahead.

I'll add that I'm finally begining to run again, turns out I didn't have a sports hernia but a torn lower ab.

Three times a week. Last week was 5 min walk followed by 5 min run for 1:15. This week 3 min walk followed by 7 min runs for 1:15.

- Sorry to hear PM did not run as well as he had hoped to. I'm anxious to hear his perspective.

- I'm very happy that your injury wasn't as severe as you first thought. Welcome back to running and I hope for you a speedy and successful recovery!

Oh, just thought I'd share that I'm feeling much better today. I did a 1 mile hike on the treadmill last night. I'll do 2 or 3 tonight and I'm hoping to get in an easy and short run tomorrow.

Hey everyone!

Great to catch up with everything and hear that things are going well on a number of fronts!

ID - Fantastic HM. 1:18 is way ahead of requirements and expectations. Good thoughts for the immediate future: Running is energizing and fun and I like running every day unless I'm tired. If I'm tired, maybe I'll work on my nutrition or something and give my running muscles a rest. If this is necessary, it will not effect my ability to achieve my goals in the slightest. It is simply the right thing to do at the time.

euro - The meeting would have been worth the trip at many times the distance. Sorry for stealing you from your family for a few hours. You are fit and crazy strong and a true testament to the British emphasis on core and leg strength. Seb Coe must be proud.

FO - So glad to hear that things are coming around with your injury. Take it from someone who is older than you - take your time with your recovery. There is plenty of time to run fast. Just wait. Muhahaha!

VF - Wind + PR! We want details!

Boston - So many things, but special props to DD, Ryan Hall, Kara, and many others. Desiree is a special talent and an impressive person (I spoke with her briefly at Naples) and it is inspiring to see her spirit for her sport on display at Boston. It was a special day and all that, but it still takes a special person to make dreams become reality. To sieze the moment and take advantage of an opportunity more than your competition. Having the lead on Boylston: Priceless!

As for me, I will now put my marathon dreams on the shelf for a while. 1:27 half and 3:17 finish with hamstrings siezing and cramping at a steadily decreasing pace after mile 16 (sound familiar?). The runner in me resists this, but the engineer in me demands it. This may only make full sense to FO and euro, but the most likely cause of this is that my work on running mechanics has resulted in increased stress on my hamstings that will prevent me from being able to run a quality marathon (but hopefully nothing shorter) until my strength and endurance in that area has developed to a point to allow me to run 26.2 at a quality pace again. At age 50, it might be tempting to rush this development, but I just don't see it that way. I accept what this sport will present to me, and everything has it's time and place. I hope that I will be able to produce something inspiring like DD and the rest in the future in the marathon, but will wait patiently until my body is ready.

In the meantime, I will focus on my health, fitness, and the shorter and faster races. This thread has sharpened my focus and accelerated my progress in certain areas that has produced both better times in the shorter races and temporarily derailed my marathon dreams. In a world of instant gratification, running is quite the polar opposite. I accept and appreciate that this as unique to running in this modern world. It will take considerable time, but I will be back to the marathon when the time is right. This may take years, but I love my training so the notion of "sacrifice" in relation to running is irrelevant.

PM,

That is a great post!

Your positive attitude is a great example for all masters and frankly all runners across the spectrum of age and ability.

Fantastic!

Thanks for the inspiring words, PM, and well done. I know you were aiming for a bit faster but 3:17 at age 50 is still a fantastic performance. Being part of the fastest marathon in history... priceless.

So it sounds like we're all shaping up for a summer of speed!

eurodonkey wrote:

So it sounds like we're all shaping up for a summer of speed!

I'm with ya, as long as I can get my damn legs to cooperate! No running yet for me. I was going to give it a shot last night but my achilles is still feeling tight and sore.

Here's the regiment I'm following for my injury recovery.

Evening stretching and massage during my core workout.

Last night I did a couple of easy calf extensions body weight only.

Treadmill hike at relatively steep grades (10% +).

Icing for 20 to 30 minutes.

Any thoughts on what I can do to enhance my chances of a quick recovery?

I think obviously I need to stay away from exercise(running) that is going to have a force impact on the area until I feel the soreness and tightness have completed subsided.

early on in this thread, I thought that you had no chance, because it seemed like you were listening to no one. You have far outperformed anything I thought you would do. Great job at the five and the half and good luck getting the extra weight off and throwing down a 1:14 or better next year!

jjjjjjjjjj wrote:

early on in this thread, I thought that you had no chance, because it seemed like you were listening to no one. You have far outperformed anything I thought you would do. Great job at the five and the half and good luck getting the extra weight off and throwing down a 1:14 or better next year!

Its very kind of you to post. Thanks!

eurodonkey wrote:

Being part of the fastest marathon in history... priceless.

So it sounds like we're all shaping up for a summer of speed!

Yes! This may very well be the fastest marathon run by anyone in my lifetime, and I can say I participated in it. It really was a perfectly directed and sustained wind to create a consistent push through the entire race. With an ideal temperature for running on top. I was joking with some other runners before the race that it was as if you were in a restaurant and ordered the ultimate marathon meal. Would you like a record with that?

I have come to the point now that I might be willing to share some of my thoughts on running mechanics on this thread because some of them might help you, ID. And there is nothing like my reported marathon catastrophic malfunctions to provide the proper sense of caution when considering tinkering with your motions.

Let me start with something that I try and do on most of my runs that I think will help everyone. And it doesn't really promote a change in your normal running mechanics, so I don't see it as risky if done in proper moderation.

Sometime during your run, change the amount of time your feet are on the ground toward the extremes. This means you want to 'bound' and 'shuffle'. Bounding would be where you were imagining you were running on hot coals and wanted to spend as little time on the ground as possible. Shuffling would be just the opposite, keeping your feet on the ground as long as possible without really straining. Use your hip flexors and focus on quick turnover to shuffle.

Bounding relatively overworks your quads and calfs and shuffling overworks your hip flexors and hamstrings. Next time you are on the track, run two 100m warmup strides and time them. Say that's around 16.5 just to pick a number. Now bound the next two and try and hit 16.5. Then shuffle a couple and try and hit 16.5. Now try and run a couple of normal 16.5's. Don't be shocked when a normal 15.9 felt like you were running 16.5! Well, you can be shocked if you want to be, it shouldn't effect your running. Anyway, to me, NOW I'm warmed up.

Did I mention that I love my training?