The article was initially entiteld, "Zane Robertston!!!!" but we changed it to make it more descriptive. Here is our article on his bust and fake excuses (he said he went to a hospital for a COvid-19 vaccine but they gave him EPO instead) which points out that in 2016 he expressed frutation at the amount of doping in the sport:
Since you are still in denial, here's a brief recap of your months long demonstration of your depth of incompetence (with respect to searching for complete and accurate information) and ignorance (lack of knowledge of basic track history from your own era) and denial:
It is an undeniable and easily verifiable fact that 4 Kenyans set 10 world records in 4 events in this chosen period of 1964-1979. You should have known this yourself, as early as 1978. This was presented by "slowwer" as only one small part of the context arguing that Kenya was the best nation in that period, in running events on the track.
You denied this easily verifiable fact for months. You argued it was only 2 records, then 4 records, then 6 records -- apparently all the incomplete results of your exhaustive search -- for months, even after "slowwer" had already given you the Kenyan names and the track events for Kenya's 10 world records.
You failed to demonstrate that you are capable of conducting a simple internet search, that I could do in 5 minutes, and others could in 1 minute with my detailed clues.
You failed to demonstrate accurate personal knowledge of basic historical facts during the period of the '60s and '70s, clinging instead to your faulty memory and incomplete search reults.
Now you pretend that all along, your months long denial of easily verifiable historical fact, and demonstration of search incompetence and track history ignorance was a long term ploy to show that New Zealand was better in a slightly earlier range of years.
The time was ripe to make that claim back in December, when asked repeatedly, if not Kenya, which country was better than Kenya, but only after acknowledging the 10 Kenyan world records.
And from these demonstrated collosal failures causing you to be uninformed about basic track history in the '60s and '70s, you now pretend to be the only one old enough and knowledgeable enough to know how important imperial distances were in that same era, again showing the same tell-tale signs of over-confidence in your own personal knowledge.
All that and you're left with fewer Kenyan world record holders than NZ had in a similar period - and far fewer Olympic medallists. But all this is a side-show. The main event is chronic Kenyan doping. That's what they truly excel at. Your pompous and irrelevant lectures don't get around that.
In the 16 year period before 1980, Kenyans have set more WRs than any other nation in men's rack distance running. This obviously is an indication for some strength. It seems after denial of this easy fact for months (they have set 2 WRs, 4 WRs, 6 WRs...) you finally accepted it.
Now you try to denigrate this argument for Kenyan strength by this list of New Zealand WRs in the period 1961 - 1976? 2 of them in Olympic events (8 by the Kenyans), Including such powewerful events as the 1000y indoors, or a Mile relay. Great that Snell has continued his wonderful 800m WR for 8 meters more, so you can count it as 2 WRs.
Hey, Ethiopia between 1994 and 2009 has set over 25 WRs, 9 of them in Olympic events. And now?
Here is the list of Australien WRs of the last 52 years:
All that and you're left with fewer Kenyan world record holders than NZ had in a similar period - and far fewer Olympic medallists. But all this is a side-show. The main event is chronic Kenyan doping. That's what they truly excel at. Your pompous and irrelevant lectures don't get around that.
This doesn't even begin to explain why you denied and continued to deny a verifiable and verified fact for months, and why you couldn't simply look it up in a few minutes instead of continuing to double and triple down on ignorance, months after the facts were verified for you, and why you are doing everying in your power now to talk about anything else except your failure to correctly inform yourself about track history.
All that and you're left with fewer Kenyan world record holders than NZ had in a similar period - and far fewer Olympic medallists. But all this is a side-show. The main event is chronic Kenyan doping. That's what they truly excel at. Your pompous and irrelevant lectures don't get around that.
This doesn't even begin to explain why you denied and continued to deny a verifiable and verified fact for months, and why you couldn't simply look it up in a few minutes instead of continuing to double and triple down on ignorance, months after the facts were verified for you, and why you are doing everying in your power now to talk about anything else except your failure to correctly inform yourself about track history.
He did the same to any fact regarding Kenyan success which I have presented him. In dozens (hundreds?) of posts.
Over all the track distances, Kenyans have achieved the best times of any nation in this period. For Armstronglivs this makes them slow. And so on. Over months.
It's a good thing I'm immune to it but this thread has truly become afflicted with the disease that is Kenyan doping minimizing and apologism. Like similar such afflictions there are serious symptoms of delirium and departure from reality, into fantasies about a former Kenyan "golden age". It is a fantasy. The reality is that Kenyan success over decades has been built on a foundation of doping, which is now so bad we see their athletes being busted on a regular basis. The only way they have avoided an international ban - so far - is WA giving them credit for trying to clean up their appallingly dirty sport. They won't succeed. Their doping is too engrained for that. To be Kenyan is a byword for doping - as it once was for the former E Bloc athletes. As Kenya has shown, doping doesn't have to be state-sponsored to be right throughout their sport.
This post was edited 11 minutes after it was posted.
And, no, in a 16 year period New Zealand has not won more Olympic medals than Kenya between 1964- 1979.
For sure this is not very important for the subject, just for clarification.
Wrong. 2 golds and a bronze at Rome '60, 2 golds and a bronze at Tokyo '64, a bronze at Mexico '68, a bronze at Munich '72, a gold and a silver at Montreal '76. 10 medals in 16 years easily beats Kenya from '64-80. And without doping - unlike the Kenyans.
All that and you're left with fewer Kenyan world record holders than NZ had in a similar period - and far fewer Olympic medallists. But all this is a side-show. The main event is chronic Kenyan doping. That's what they truly excel at. Your pompous and irrelevant lectures don't get around that.
In the 16 year period before 1980, Kenyans have set more WRs than any other nation in men's rack distance running. This obviously is an indication for some strength. It seems after denial of this easy fact for months (they have set 2 WRs, 4 WRs, 6 WRs...) you finally accepted it.
Now you try to denigrate this argument for Kenyan strength by this list of New Zealand WRs in the period 1961 - 1976? 2 of them in Olympic events (8 by the Kenyans), Including such powewerful events as the 1000y indoors, or a Mile relay. Great that Snell has continued his wonderful 800m WR for 8 meters more, so you can count it as 2 WRs.
Hey, Ethiopia between 1994 and 2009 has set over 25 WRs, 9 of them in Olympic events. And now?
Here is the list of Australien WRs of the last 52 years:
All that and you're left with fewer Kenyan world record holders than NZ had in a similar period - and far fewer Olympic medallists. But all this is a side-show. The main event is chronic Kenyan doping. That's what they truly excel at. Your pompous and irrelevant lectures don't get around that.
In the 16 year period before 1980, Kenyans have set more WRs than any other nation in men's rack distance running. This obviously is an indication for some strength. It seems after denial of this easy fact for months (they have set 2 WRs, 4 WRs, 6 WRs...) you finally accepted it.
Now you try to denigrate this argument for Kenyan strength by this list of New Zealand WRs in the period 1961 - 1976? 2 of them in Olympic events (8 by the Kenyans), Including such powewerful events as the 1000y indoors, or a Mile relay. Great that Snell has continued his wonderful 800m WR for 8 meters more, so you can count it as 2 WRs.
Hey, Ethiopia between 1994 and 2009 has set over 25 WRs, 9 of them in Olympic events. And now?
Here is the list of Australien WRs of the last 52 years:
55y - 0
60y - 0
60m - 0
100y - 0
100m - 0
150m - 0
200m - 0
200m straight - 0
220y - 0
220y straight -0
300m - 0
400m - 0
440y - 0
800m - 0
880y - 0
1000y - 0
1000m - 0
3/4 Mile - 0
1500m - 0
1600m - 0
1 Mile - 0
2000m - 0
3000m - 0
3200m - 0
2 Miles - 0
3 Miles - 0
5000m - 0
6 Miles - 0
10000m - 0
10km - 0
15km - 0
10 Miles - 0
20km - 0
HM - 0
25km - 0
30km - 0
Marathon - 1
2000m steeple - 0
3000m steeple - 0
So records only count when they are run by Kenyans?
From the 800m-marathon Kenyans set records in only 4 distances before 1980. But doping sure changed that.
It's a good thing I'm immune to it but this thread has truly become afflicted with the disease that is Kenyan doping minimizing and apologism. Like similar such afflictions there are serious symptoms of delirium and departure from reality, into fantasies about a former Kenyan "golden age".
Who has minimized Kenyan doping? By giving correct statistics? "Golden age", the period before 1980? Nobody has said this.
And, no, in a 16 year period New Zealand has not won more Olympic medals than Kenya between 1964- 1979.
For sure this is not very important for the subject, just for clarification.
Wrong. 2 golds and a bronze at Rome '60, 2 golds and a bronze at Tokyo '64, a bronze at Mexico '68, a bronze at Munich '72, a gold and a silver at Montreal '76. 10 medals in 16 years easily beats Kenya from '64-80. And without doping - unlike the Kenyans.
No, not wrong, correct. But I know that counting until 16 is WAY beyond your capabilities. New Zealand was great in these days, espacially Snell was some of the all-time greats. But also Walker and others. So, what is your point? Kenya has had no good runners in all track events because Snell has won 3 Golds before they reached the top?
Now try to explain how 5 Olympic Games could have happened in a 16 seasons period (before Corona). Think deeply about it, it's a hard task for you.
You have listed 10 Olympic Medals (including the Marathon, which was never the subject) in 5 Games by New Zealanders. Kenya has won 12 medals in 4 Olympic Games (while they have boycotted one of them, so actually 3 games).
I have not checked this, but I'm pretty sure that you couldn't find a single 16 years period in the history of athletics in which New Zealand has won more than 8 Olympic medals in men's distance runinng. I'm also pretty sure that in any 16 years period after 1964, Kenya has won way more than 8 Olympic medals. What the f=%&k is your point?
But all this is so irrelevant. Kenya already has had huge success in the period 1964 - 1979, this was the initial point. And it's absolutely true, without any doubt. That you have changed any correct number presented to you doesn't help, fact are facts. If you like them is irrelevant.
In the 16 year period before 1980, Kenyans have set more WRs than any other nation in men's rack distance running. This obviously is an indication for some strength. It seems after denial of this easy fact for months (they have set 2 WRs, 4 WRs, 6 WRs...) you finally accepted it.
Now you try to denigrate this argument for Kenyan strength by this list of New Zealand WRs in the period 1961 - 1976? 2 of them in Olympic events (8 by the Kenyans), Including such powewerful events as the 1000y indoors, or a Mile relay. Great that Snell has continued his wonderful 800m WR for 8 meters more, so you can count it as 2 WRs.
Hey, Ethiopia between 1994 and 2009 has set over 25 WRs, 9 of them in Olympic events. And now?
Here is the list of Australien WRs of the last 52 years:
55y - 0
60y - 0
60m - 0
100y - 0
100m - 0
150m - 0
200m - 0
200m straight - 0
220y - 0
220y straight -0
300m - 0
400m - 0
440y - 0
800m - 0
880y - 0
1000y - 0
1000m - 0
3/4 Mile - 0
1500m - 0
1600m - 0
1 Mile - 0
2000m - 0
3000m - 0
3200m - 0
2 Miles - 0
3 Miles - 0
5000m - 0
6 Miles - 0
10000m - 0
10km - 0
15km - 0
10 Miles - 0
20km - 0
HM - 0
25km - 0
30km - 0
Marathon - 1
2000m steeple - 0
3000m steeple - 0
So records only count when they are run by Kenyans?
From the 800m-marathon Kenyans set records in only 4 distances before 1980. But doping sure changed that.
No, why do you ask such a stupid question? (well, it's not too difficult to know the answer...).
In ONLY 4 distances? (for months you said it's 2 distances).
In the 3000m. The 5000m. The 10000m. The steeple. Always by two different athletes.
In the other relevant events, Kenyans reached the no. 2 in the all time lists: in the 800m, the 1500m, the Mile. Also in the 1000m. But you are right, not in the 1000y indoors.
Also not in the Marathon, an event they have almost not contested in these days (malmo and Canova maybe could give some infos about Kenya/Marathon before around 1985).
It's a good thing I'm immune to it but this thread has truly become afflicted with the disease that is Kenyan doping minimizing and apologism. Like similar such afflictions there are serious symptoms of delirium and departure from reality, into fantasies about a former Kenyan "golden age". It is a fantasy. The reality is that Kenyan success over decades has been built on a foundation of doping, which is now so bad we see their athletes being busted on a regular basis. The only way they have avoided an international ban - so far - is WA giving them credit for trying to clean up their appallingly dirty sport. They won't succeed. Their doping is too engrained for that. To be Kenyan is a byword for doping - as it once was for the former E Bloc athletes. As Kenya has shown, doping doesn't have to be state-sponsored to be right throughout their sport.
This thread was never about Kenyan doping.
It was about a New Zealander doping, and then lying about it, and getting an 8-year ban.
At some point it derailed to you demonstrating both search skill incompetence and track history ignorance, and then finding ways to deny it, but that too was never about Kenyan doping.
This is like your "safe zone" -- whenever you fail to make any valid point, or get completely debunked, you fall back to "but but but what about Kenya" and false accusations of "doping minimizing and apologism".
It's a good thing I'm immune to it but this thread has truly become afflicted with the disease that is Kenyan doping minimizing and apologism. Like similar such afflictions there are serious symptoms of delirium and departure from reality, into fantasies about a former Kenyan "golden age". It is a fantasy. The reality is that Kenyan success over decades has been built on a foundation of doping, which is now so bad we see their athletes being busted on a regular basis. The only way they have avoided an international ban - so far - is WA giving them credit for trying to clean up their appallingly dirty sport. They won't succeed. Their doping is too engrained for that. To be Kenyan is a byword for doping - as it once was for the former E Bloc athletes. As Kenya has shown, doping doesn't have to be state-sponsored to be right throughout their sport.
This thread was never about Kenyan doping.
It was about a New Zealander doping, and then lying about it, and getting an 8-year ban.
At some point it derailed to you demonstrating both search skill incompetence and track history ignorance, and then finding ways to deny it, but that too was never about Kenyan doping.
This is like your "safe zone" -- whenever you fail to make any valid point, or get completely debunked, you fall back to "but but but what about Kenya" and false accusations of "doping minimizing and apologism".
The whining sound from the resident doping denier never ceases.
Wrong. 2 golds and a bronze at Rome '60, 2 golds and a bronze at Tokyo '64, a bronze at Mexico '68, a bronze at Munich '72, a gold and a silver at Montreal '76. 10 medals in 16 years easily beats Kenya from '64-80. And without doping - unlike the Kenyans.
No, not wrong, correct. But I know that counting until 16 is WAY beyond your capabilities. New Zealand was great in these days, espacially Snell was some of the all-time greats. But also Walker and others. So, what is your point? Kenya has had no good runners in all track events because Snell has won 3 Golds before they reached the top?
Now try to explain how 5 Olympic Games could have happened in a 16 seasons period (before Corona). Think deeply about it, it's a hard task for you.
You have listed 10 Olympic Medals (including the Marathon, which was never the subject) in 5 Games by New Zealanders. Kenya has won 12 medals in 4 Olympic Games (while they have boycotted one of them, so actually 3 games).
I have not checked this, but I'm pretty sure that you couldn't find a single 16 years period in the history of athletics in which New Zealand has won more than 8 Olympic medals in men's distance runinng. I'm also pretty sure that in any 16 years period after 1964, Kenya has won way more than 8 Olympic medals. What the f=%&k is your point?
But all this is so irrelevant. Kenya already has had huge success in the period 1964 - 1979, this was the initial point. And it's absolutely true, without any doubt. That you have changed any correct number presented to you doesn't help, fact are facts. If you like them is irrelevant.
How could 5 Olympic Games have occurred in 16 years? Well - 1960, 64, 68, 72, 76. Since I can count and you can't that is 5. NZ won 11 running medals over that period, as I explained. Now, ph*******, you moron. You are a complete waste of time.
No, not wrong, correct. But I know that counting until 16 is WAY beyond your capabilities. New Zealand was great in these days, espacially Snell was some of the all-time greats. But also Walker and others. So, what is your point? Kenya has had no good runners in all track events because Snell has won 3 Golds before they reached the top?
Now try to explain how 5 Olympic Games could have happened in a 16 seasons period (before Corona). Think deeply about it, it's a hard task for you.
You have listed 10 Olympic Medals (including the Marathon, which was never the subject) in 5 Games by New Zealanders. Kenya has won 12 medals in 4 Olympic Games (while they have boycotted one of them, so actually 3 games).
I have not checked this, but I'm pretty sure that you couldn't find a single 16 years period in the history of athletics in which New Zealand has won more than 8 Olympic medals in men's distance runinng. I'm also pretty sure that in any 16 years period after 1964, Kenya has won way more than 8 Olympic medals. What the f=%&k is your point?
But all this is so irrelevant. Kenya already has had huge success in the period 1964 - 1979, this was the initial point. And it's absolutely true, without any doubt. That you have changed any correct number presented to you doesn't help, fact are facts. If you like them is irrelevant.
How could 5 Olympic Games have occurred in 16 years? Well - 1960, 64, 68, 72, 76. Since I can count and you can't that is 5. NZ won 11 running medals over that period, as I explained. Now, ph*******, you moron. You are a complete waste of time.
All this is obviously waay beyond your capabilities. Jeeez are you stupid. Olympic circle: 4 years. This normally should be some help. But not for Armstronglivs.
And you now turned one of your few correct numbers (10 NZ medals) into a wrong one: 11.
No, not wrong, correct. But I know that counting until 16 is WAY beyond your capabilities. New Zealand was great in these days, espacially Snell was some of the all-time greats. But also Walker and others. So, what is your point? Kenya has had no good runners in all track events because Snell has won 3 Golds before they reached the top?
Now try to explain how 5 Olympic Games could have happened in a 16 seasons period (before Corona). Think deeply about it, it's a hard task for you.
You have listed 10 Olympic Medals (including the Marathon, which was never the subject) in 5 Games by New Zealanders. Kenya has won 12 medals in 4 Olympic Games (while they have boycotted one of them, so actually 3 games).
I have not checked this, but I'm pretty sure that you couldn't find a single 16 years period in the history of athletics in which New Zealand has won more than 8 Olympic medals in men's distance runinng. I'm also pretty sure that in any 16 years period after 1964, Kenya has won way more than 8 Olympic medals. What the f=%&k is your point?
But all this is so irrelevant. Kenya already has had huge success in the period 1964 - 1979, this was the initial point. And it's absolutely true, without any doubt. That you have changed any correct number presented to you doesn't help, fact are facts. If you like them is irrelevant.
How could 5 Olympic Games have occurred in 16 years? Well - 1960, 64, 68, 72, 76. Since I can count and you can't that is 5. NZ won 11 running medals over that period, as I explained. Now, ph*******, you moron. You are a complete waste of time.
He said 16 seasons not 16 years.
1960-1976 is 17 years.
When you run out of fingers you can try counting on your toes. In no time at all you'll be counting to 20.
How could 5 Olympic Games have occurred in 16 years? Well - 1960, 64, 68, 72, 76. Since I can count and you can't that is 5. NZ won 11 running medals over that period, as I explained. Now, ph*******, you moron. You are a complete waste of time.
All this is obviously waay beyond your capabilities. Jeeez are you stupid. Olympic circle: 4 years. This normally should be some help. But not for Armstronglivs.
And you now turned one of your few correct numbers (10 NZ medals) into a wrong one: 11.
You still can't count. There were 5 Olympics from 1960-76.
How could 5 Olympic Games have occurred in 16 years? Well - 1960, 64, 68, 72, 76. Since I can count and you can't that is 5. NZ won 11 running medals over that period, as I explained. Now, ph*******, you moron. You are a complete waste of time.
He said 16 seasons not 16 years.
1960-1976 is 17 years.
When you run out of fingers you can try counting on your toes. In no time at all you'll be counting to 20.
How many fingers old are you?
No, he didn't. But shift the goal-posts, by all means. It's the only way to make the Kenyan cheats look better.
You Kenyan apologists have to keep shifting the terms of the discussion to suit your argument. I understand that: dishonesty and manipulation - cheating - is at the core of Kenyan sport.
How could 5 Olympic Games have occurred in 16 years? Well - 1960, 64, 68, 72, 76. Since I can count and you can't that is 5. NZ won 11 running medals over that period, as I explained. Now, ph*******, you moron. You are a complete waste of time.
All this is obviously waay beyond your capabilities. Jeeez are you stupid. Olympic circle: 4 years. This normally should be some help. But not for Armstronglivs.
And you now turned one of your few correct numbers (10 NZ medals) into a wrong one: 11.
"Olympic circle"? Are you referring to the discus? Oh - you mean "Olympic cycle"! I can see why you can't get that right. Like your persistence use of "beeing". Quite the illiterate.