The article was initially entiteld, "Zane Robertston!!!!" but we changed it to make it more descriptive. Here is our article on his bust and fake excuses (he said he went to a hospital for a COvid-19 vaccine but they gave him EPO instead) which points out that in 2016 he expressed frutation at the amount of doping in the sport:
The legal implications of the AIU investigation that led to a suggestion of "a conspiracy to commit fraud" are quite simple.
The AIU discovered a practice where individuals were apparently working together in breach of the laws and rules that apply to medical practice in order to circumvent rules that apply to sporting competition. Their working together is a "conspiracy" when it has an unlawful motive; the breach of rules applying to medical practice (the passing off of communications and certification purporting to be from a medical professional, who was nonexistent) is unlawful, and the purpose of this conspiracy to defeat rules that apply to the participation in sport constitutes the basis of a "fraud". According to the AIU, that is what the facts of their investigation suggest is occurring.
To bring criminal charges against anyone involved requires that a) they were involved, b) they committed unlawful acts (which is conspiracy to commit a fraud), and c) they did so with intent. To prove the latter all it requires is that it be shown they knew what they were doing. The responsibility for bringing offenders to account under the criminal law is solely that of the police and the courts, who may use the information the AIU has uncovered as evidence.
Where did you find the suggestion: "conspiracy to commit fraud"?
The AIU didn't mention conspiracy as far as I can see:
"It seems that elite Kenyan athletes are being assisted by a person or persons, including someone with considerable medical knowledge, to commit what amounts to criminal conduct involving frauds on the AIU, ...".
Looks like their next step is not (yet) the police or the courts, but a recommendation to investigate further: "We (the disciplinary panel) ... urge the AIU to take all possible steps to establish how this is occurring."
It is a conspiracy if several individuals are involved to achieve the same illicit purpose, as the athletes and fake doctors were. But the AIU was describing the nature of a criminal fraud committed, not laying specific charges, which is the role of the police should that happen.
The next step for the AIU is to do what it is empowered to do, which is to investigate further. It doesn't have the power that the police and courts have - so your point about that is superfluous.
But, by all means, convince yourself that nothing really "criminal" is going on. After all, they are Kenyans, which in your books means they are "innocent victims of an unjust system".
You have been waiting for months, despite the names and events already having been listed at least three times in another thread those same months ago. I offered you several fast ways to end the wait, but the next step is yours. If you are truly confident enough in your competence and historical knowledge to justify your arrogance, what are you afraid of? "yes I accept your offer unconditionally".
I can spoon feed you, but at some point, you will never be able to solve your issues if you deny they, or blame others for them. You need to commit to accepting your inability to find the missing names.
You made the claim. You need to back it up - not me. But you can't.
Actually "slowwer" made the claim, and backed it up at least three times. Your lack of self-confidence betrays your arrogance. Just accept what you should consider a no-risk offer, and it all ends.
You made the claim. You need to back it up - not me. But you can't.
Actually "slowwer" made the claim, and backed it up at least three times. Your lack of self-confidence betrays your arrogance. Just accept what you should consider a no-risk offer, and it all ends.
He didn't back it up. None of you did. It was a simple request - put the names of the record-holders next to the events listed. But none of you can - even though you had collectively made a claim of 10 or so Kenyan world records before 1980.
But I am really uninterested in your little parlour game about a bygone era. So what. What interests me much more is the record Kenyans are setting for doping positives. These are coming so thick and fast now they are blowing their athletic achievements out of the water. I haven't seen anything akin to it since the E German heyday (although they were better at not getting caught). Kenyan athletes appear to be as dumb as they are dishonest - like their advocates here.
Where did you find the suggestion: "conspiracy to commit fraud"?
The AIU didn't mention conspiracy as far as I can see:
"It seems that elite Kenyan athletes are being assisted by a person or persons, including someone with considerable medical knowledge, to commit what amounts to criminal conduct involving frauds on the AIU, ...".
Looks like their next step is not (yet) the police or the courts, but a recommendation to investigate further: "We (the disciplinary panel) ... urge the AIU to take all possible steps to establish how this is occurring."
It is a conspiracy if several individuals are involved to achieve the same illicit purpose, as the athletes and fake doctors were. But the AIU was describing the nature of a criminal fraud committed, not laying specific charges, which is the role of the police should that happen.
The next step for the AIU is to do what it is empowered to do, which is to investigate further. It doesn't have the power that the police and courts have - so your point about that is superfluous.
But, by all means, convince yourself that nothing really "criminal" is going on. After all, they are Kenyans, which in your books means they are "innocent victims of an unjust system".
Again, who suggested "conspiracy to commit fraud"? Who are you quoting? Maybe it is a conspiracy, but I don't understand why are you talking about conspiracies at all, if the AIU or the disciplinary panel did not.
If the AIU is truly a victim of criminal fraud, surely they are also empowered to report any crime to the police, and then the police would investigate. Is it normal that criminal fraud victims first investigate the matter beforehand?
I haven't convinced myself of anything yet, but simply sought out your expertise. Maybe something "criminal" is going on, but then seems like this should be immediately referred to the proper authorities, as you keep reminding us that the AIU is not empowered to prosecute crimes. Are they empowered to conduct criminal investigations?
I am figuring you are Kenyan. Your false assertions, and evasiveness when asked to back them up, go some way to explaining the duplicity that is at the heart of Kenyan doping, which is now the worst in the sport. You have provided useful insight into their disease - without intending it, of course.
I'm Kenyan? Spot on like almost all of your claims.
For months you said 2 WRs from Kenyans before 1980.
Then you said 4.
Now you've listed two WR holders, one with 2 WRs, one with 4 WRs before 1980. Have you already managed two get the combined number of 2+4? A hint, it's different from both 2 and 4. So what's your final answer?
Less than 10? 10? More than 10? And, the much more important question: what's wrong with you?
Actually "slowwer" made the claim, and backed it up at least three times. Your lack of self-confidence betrays your arrogance. Just accept what you should consider a no-risk offer, and it all ends.
He didn't back it up. None of you did. It was a simple request - put the names of the record-holders next to the events listed. But none of you can - even though you had collectively made a claim of 10 or so Kenyan world records before 1980.
But I am really uninterested in your little parlour game about a bygone era. So what. What interests me much more is the record Kenyans are setting for doping positives. These are coming so thick and fast now they are blowing their athletic achievements out of the water. I haven't seen anything akin to it since the E German heyday (although they were better at not getting caught). Kenyan athletes appear to be as dumb as they are dishonest - like their advocates here.
Of course he did. At least three times. You quoted one of the answers in your reply. Anyone can confirm that. Even you. Don't blame anyone but yourself if you don't remember a conversation from three months ago you heavily participated in -- that is easily searchable.
Your request is so simple -- you can easily do it yourself. I did everything for you short of "lmgtfy". I was debating giving you more clues, so you can finally get it for yourself.
"Thick and fast", "blowing achievement out of the water" -- more emotional descriptions of something you cannot put a number on in order to put it in proper perspective. They are not setting any records for doping positives.
It wasn't me that made the claim of 10 Kenyan records. Yet somehow you think it is my job to prove that for you.
You somehow think it's my job to educate you.
The whole saga regarding Zane Robertson is over now and the hapless kiwi is serving his eight year sentence away from athletics in the most peaceful way possible and the initial hype about threats of imprisonment etc were just hot air basically so Zane should be allowed to get on with his life in a productive way and hopefully can still contribute to athletics because he was and still is an absolute standout.
I am figuring you are Kenyan. Your false assertions, and evasiveness when asked to back them up, go some way to explaining the duplicity that is at the heart of Kenyan doping, which is now the worst in the sport. You have provided useful insight into their disease - without intending it, of course.
I'm Kenyan? Spot on like almost all of your claims.
For months you said 2 WRs from Kenyans before 1980.
Then you said 4.
Now you've listed two WR holders, one with 2 WRs, one with 4 WRs before 1980. Have you already managed two get the combined number of 2+4? A hint, it's different from both 2 and 4. So what's your final answer?
Less than 10? 10? More than 10? And, the much more important question: what's wrong with you?
Because I corrected myself from 2 to 4 records I must therefore be heading in the direction of your claimed 10? Why stop there? It will be 20. Or 30. But when I've asked you to place the names of Kenyan world record-holders next to the events I listed - which were all in the championship repertoire - you won't do it. You make a claim you won't - can't - back up.
But as I said to your similarly deluded ally rekrunner, your parlour game has become tedious - and confirms the emptiness of your boasts. I am much more interested in the fact that the number of Kenyans busted far exceeds your record-holders and is likely to top the all-time list for cheating. The AIU is on to it when it describes the practice in Kenya of "criminal fraud". Your guys.
It wasn't me that made the claim of 10 Kenyan records. Yet somehow you think it is my job to prove that for you.
You somehow think it's my job to educate you.
Now there you have made a joke. But you are so mentally challenged as to think it is someone else's job to prove your claims are correct. I suppose it is - because you can't.
Because I corrected myself from 2 to 4 records I must therefore be heading in the direction of your claimed 10? Why stop there? It will be 20. Or 30. But when I've asked you to place the names of Kenyan world record-holders next to the events I listed - which were all in the championship repertoire - you won't do it. You make a claim you won't - can't - back up.
But as I said to your similarly deluded ally rekrunner, your parlour game has become tedious - and confirms the emptiness of your boasts. I am much more interested in the fact that the number of Kenyans busted far exceeds your record-holders and is likely to top the all-time list for cheating. The AIU is on to it when it describes the practice in Kenya of "criminal fraud". Your guys.
Do you honestly not realize that you've corrected yourself now to 6 records - 2 from Keino and 4 from Rono? I know numbers come hard to you, but you just quoted slowwer saying you managed "2+4". and prophetically "A hint, it's different from both 2 and 4." For the avoidance of all doubt, 2+4=6.
I would feel sorry for you but for the magnitude of your false arrogance, and I apologize profusely to the whole forum for highlighting this surprising, even for you, depth of inability to conduct a 1-5 minute online search, for the last 6 pages, not to mention the last 3 months, and for letting that hijack a thread about Zane -- I will check myself in the future.
I will lead you right to the water. Let's see if you can make yourself drink, or if you will still need someone else to spoon it in your mouth. Since your internet search skills are sorely wanting, I will provide you a clickable link directly to your own post from three short months ago -- let's see if you have 1) read this post this far (it is a lot of words), and 2) can click the link, and 3) read your own post with comprehension, and 4) find the names of the 2 missing World Record setting Kenyans, responsible for setting 4 more World Records, hidden in the quote you quoted from "slowwer" in your reply.
If you get lost, your post is post #856, but you can also find slowwer's answer in the post #852 to Coevett, and on the previous page in post #833:
Will the line be drawn?07/18/2019 12:01pm EDT6 years ago
Is anyone else sick of hearing how these East Africans are just genetically superior? They are in area where getting drugs is way easier than other parts of the world and in areas where drug testing isn’t even a thing....
Now there you have made a joke. But you are so mentally challenged as to think it is someone else's job to prove your claims are correct. I suppose it is - because you can't.
I'm Kenyan? Spot on like almost all of your claims.
For months you said 2 WRs from Kenyans before 1980.
Then you said 4.
Now you've listed two WR holders, one with 2 WRs, one with 4 WRs before 1980. Have you already managed two get the combined number of 2+4? A hint, it's different from both 2 and 4. So what's your final answer?
Less than 10? 10? More than 10? And, the much more important question: what's wrong with you?
Because I corrected myself from 2 to 4 records I must therefore be heading in the direction of your claimed 10? Why stop there? It will be 20. Or 30. But when I've asked you to place the names of Kenyan world record-holders next to the events I listed - which were all in the championship repertoire - you won't do it. You make a claim you won't - can't - back up.
But as I said to your similarly deluded ally rekrunner, your parlour game has become tedious - and confirms the emptiness of your boasts. I am much more interested in the fact that the number of Kenyans busted far exceeds your record-holders and is likely to top the all-time list for cheating. The AIU is on to it when it describes the practice in Kenya of "criminal fraud". Your guys.
What about giving just the correct number? Before you do this, you will correct yourself at least two more times.
Your behavior is hurting for anyone not completely retarded.
Because I corrected myself from 2 to 4 records I must therefore be heading in the direction of your claimed 10? Why stop there? It will be 20. Or 30. But when I've asked you to place the names of Kenyan world record-holders next to the events I listed - which were all in the championship repertoire - you won't do it. You make a claim you won't - can't - back up.
But as I said to your similarly deluded ally rekrunner, your parlour game has become tedious - and confirms the emptiness of your boasts. I am much more interested in the fact that the number of Kenyans busted far exceeds your record-holders and is likely to top the all-time list for cheating. The AIU is on to it when it describes the practice in Kenya of "criminal fraud". Your guys.
What about giving just the correct number? Before you do this, you will correct yourself at least two more times.
Your behavior is hurting for anyone not completely retarded.
Now there you have made a joke. But you are so mentally challenged as to think it is someone else's job to prove your claims are correct. I suppose it is - because you can't.
I can, slowwer can, rekrunner can and just did.
I guess it's too much to expect you to apologize.
None of you have done what you say you have, which is support your claims. So no apology forthcoming.
Because I corrected myself from 2 to 4 records I must therefore be heading in the direction of your claimed 10? Why stop there? It will be 20. Or 30. But when I've asked you to place the names of Kenyan world record-holders next to the events I listed - which were all in the championship repertoire - you won't do it. You make a claim you won't - can't - back up.
But as I said to your similarly deluded ally rekrunner, your parlour game has become tedious - and confirms the emptiness of your boasts. I am much more interested in the fact that the number of Kenyans busted far exceeds your record-holders and is likely to top the all-time list for cheating. The AIU is on to it when it describes the practice in Kenya of "criminal fraud". Your guys.
Do you honestly not realize that you've corrected yourself now to 6 records - 2 from Keino and 4 from Rono? I know numbers come hard to you, but you just quoted slowwer saying you managed "2+4". and prophetically "A hint, it's different from both 2 and 4." For the avoidance of all doubt, 2+4=6.
I would feel sorry for you but for the magnitude of your false arrogance, and I apologize profusely to the whole forum for highlighting this surprising, even for you, depth of inability to conduct a 1-5 minute online search, for the last 6 pages, not to mention the last 3 months, and for letting that hijack a thread about Zane -- I will check myself in the future.
I will lead you right to the water. Let's see if you can make yourself drink, or if you will still need someone else to spoon it in your mouth. Since your internet search skills are sorely wanting, I will provide you a clickable link directly to your own post from three short months ago -- let's see if you have 1) read this post this far (it is a lot of words), and 2) can click the link, and 3) read your own post with comprehension, and 4) find the names of the 2 missing World Record setting Kenyans, responsible for setting 4 more World Records, hidden in the quote you quoted from "slowwer" in your reply.
If you get lost, your post is post #856, but you can also find slowwer's answer in the post #852 to Coevett, and on the previous page in post #833:
Since you haven't supported your claims as I asked I am no longer interested in what you or your minions have to say about Kenyan "world records" before 1980. It is also a complete digression from the subject of the thread - and you always insist on sticking to the subject. But only when it suits you.
I am more interested in what is current and what is relevant, which is the constant stream of evidence of Kenya doping. The AIU has just given us further useful information about that.
But this constant wrestling with doping apologists like yourself is always a futile task and, for now, simply too tedious to persist with. You also showed what kind of person you are with the Kara Goucher thread. You make me want to go and wash my hands after engaging with you.