Apparently Not wrote:
Bottom line, there is no evidence or indication that Galen has a TUE for hypogondaism. In fact ,there is evidence that he does not.
Please don't allow basic facts to interfere with "you just don't get it's" faux-condescending and entertainingly delusional tirade.
Thank You wrote:
Brent W wrote:I'm a pretty avid fan of another sport that had a TUE problem. Specifically, it was TUEs for low testosterone. It was a snowballing problem until half the roster was diagnosed with and "treating" low testosterone.
They solved it by banning TUEs for drugs that have any performance enhancing effect. Sorry, if you've got hypogonadism you can choose between being seeking treatment or being a professional athlete. I'll even go out on a limb and say there shouldn't be TUEs for thyroid problems - sorry if your thyroid is legitimately messed up, but not everyone has the genes to be a pro athlete.
No other solution is fair. Allowing PEDs under the guise of therapeutic use doesn't even the playing field, it's throws it out of whack.
Thank You !!!!! Let's knock it off with the TUE's. Do we give a TUE motorized wheelchair to the genetically slow? Should I be allowed in the NBA on bionic stilts because I'm not tall?
I'm sorry that people have allergies. Tough. Deal with it. It should just make your clean accomplishments even outstanding.
Rupp is a sickly weakling with 27 TUEs. You know what? He's too weak to be in the Olympics, just like 99% of the rest of us. Let him go work at the car wash, which befits his abilities and intellect.
I believe salazar has said repeatedly that there are no long term TUEs at NOP. Just short ones to deal with small short term problems. He could be lying but that seems a bit too checkable to lie about.
actually it wasn't salazar who said that - it was Rupp and Farah's agent.
and the statement is a little swiss cheesy. But still, unless the agent or salazar was lying, NOP's TUE use sounds pretty light:
Earlier today, LetsRun.com published an article on the desire by former World Cross Country Champion Craig Virgin for there to be more transparency about the supplements athletes take and the Thereupeutic Use Exemptions (TUEs) they are granted. Virgin’s comments came after the American record two mile run and workout of Galen Rupp.
Ricky Simms, agent to Galen Rupp and Mo Farah, was quoted in the LRC article. After speaking to Galen Rupp’s coach, Alberto Salazar, about our story, Simms wrote LRC today to relay more information on the TUEs used by the Salazar coached Nike Oregon Project Athletes.
Ricky wrote in two emails:
“The one athlete in the Nike Oregon Project who has a current TUE is an athlete who is anaemic. The TUE is for iron injections to bring their iron level back to normal. The reason for getting a TUE was so that the athlete could get a slightly higher dose than normal purely for practical reasons, i.e. to reduce cost and save time. “
“TUE’s are normally issued for up to 5 days and to treat acute medical conditions.”
“The ratio of TUE’s by Alberto coached athletes is less than one per year in the entire group. The last time a NOP athlete had a TUE was 18 months earlier when an athlete got a TUE for 5 days to treat an acute allergic reaction. “
” Out of 11 NOP athletes coached by Alberto only 3 TUE’s have been issued while they were members of the NOP. “
” TUE’s are normally issued to treat acute medical conditions for short periods, typically 5 or 6 days.”
Ricky added, “Note that three years ago asthma inhalers were taken off the list and do not require a TUE….I am just giving you this information to highlight that TUE’s are not common and certainly not being abused in the NOP.”
As Simms noted many supplements and medications athletes take do not require a TUE.
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2014/02/ricky-simms-gives-details-tues-nike-oregon-project/
Dwayne wrote:
I'm with Brent, banning all TUEs is the only solution. Not fair for some people ? Not everyone has the natural body to run at an elite level. That's a reality of life.
This ^
Athletic competition should be based on competing with all of the strength, speed, agility... that your natural body can achieve. If you have some condition that does not allow you to compete at an Olympic level, so be it. I personally have the condition of being slow. Others may have asthma, hypothyroidism...
Mr. Magoo wrote:
Hopefully this changes, because in my experience he is a shitweasel and needs to be out on his ass.
And what exactly is your "experience" with Alberto? I'm just curious, because you seem to act like you have a lot of inside information about this situation, and are willing to insult people who put their names on their posts (like Renato), and seem to fancy yourself some sort expert on this whole topic and and story. Are you, or do you just have a big ego? You seem to love the attention you've gotten so far (Renato engaging you, wejo asking for an e-mail), and seem to really think you are a good writer (ps, you're not, though you clearly think peppering your sentences with highfalutin words brings some sort of quality to your writing).
So I repeat the question, Mr Insider/Expert: who are you? What is your "experience" as relates to this? Don't be shy.
Let's clarify the Robert Johnson comments: he is not the same Robert Johnson who is the University of Oregon track coach.
Yesterday ? Oh, you mean a year ago ? When everyone still believed that they were untouchable ?
This Man wrote:
Dwayne wrote:I'm with Brent, banning all TUEs is the only solution. Not fair for some people ? Not everyone has the natural body to run at an elite level. That's a reality of life.
This ^
Athletic competition should be based on competing with all of the strength, speed, agility... that your natural body can achieve. If you have some condition that does not allow you to compete at an Olympic level, so be it. I personally have the condition of being slow. Others may have asthma, hypothyroidism...
I totally agree. This was my reasoning for Pistorious not being allowed to compete against able bodied runners.
agip wrote:
unless the agent or salazar was lying
How sharp a blow to your head would it take to get you to accept the obvious fact that Salazar and everyone else with something to lose in this story are dishonest as hell? Salazar has been lying since his own well-documented doping days with Athletics West. Anyone on this board who goes the "Well, I'm keeping an open mind about this until I learn more" isn't being charitable or fair-minded; he's being willfully blind, kind of like I am on my cartoon (but it's all an act; in my real life comings and goings I rock 20/15 vision).
Sesamoiditis wrote:
This Man wrote:This ^
Athletic competition should be based on competing with all of the strength, speed, agility... that your natural body can achieve. If you have some condition that does not allow you to compete at an Olympic level, so be it. I personally have the condition of being slow. Others may have asthma, hypothyroidism...
I totally agree. This was my reasoning for Pistorious not being allowed to compete against able bodied runners.
A thousand times yes to all of the above
I came up with my own drug test over the years. Actually, it's a test of dishonesty, psychosis and narcissism from which you can conclude for certain an athlete or coach would be more than willing to cheat. Since I don't know Al personally I am going to use 2 examples which are from my own experiences:
1. 2014 NYC half - I was standing in line behind two women waiting for a porta' john to free up. We had a good 10 min until the race start. We were all participating. As the person inside was exiting, out of nowhere comes AlSauce and tries to jump the line, get inside and shut the door! The woman next in line refused to let him in and was holding the door open. He let out this huge grunt, made some comment under his breath and stormed off as the crowd called him names. Of course the hobby joggers around us didn't know who he was but that face was hard to miss. My interpretation is he thought he was above the rules so could just cut the line and go in as he wished. He literally was struggling with this woman. Insane. He is more important than everyone else, and he wasn't even running. I posted about this the day it happened but of course the thread was deleted.
2. This is back in 2005 during a road trip from west to east coast. I was with a close buddy and we were staying with a few friends in Eugene. We went down to the track to watch the team work out and there was AlSauce with Rupp by themselves off to the side. There was nothing special about this scene but just watching the two of them interact was interesting. Rupp looked like this shell of a boy just standing there listening to Al with his mouth open. Just seeing them completely separate from the team the whole time was weird. It smelled like complete manipulation.
So back to my test. He's shown all the signs of egomania and narcissism. He thinks he's more important than everyone else, is on an absolute power trip, thinks he's above the law, needs admiration, has a strong sense of entitlement, and exploits others. He has a lot in common with Gatlin, Lance and other cheaters. The outbursts give much away. It's pretty easy to tell the chapters out there by their character and behavior.
Who are you? wrote:
you seem to act like you have a lot of inside information about this situation, ....and seem to fancy yourself some sort expert on this whole topic and story.... and seem to really think you are a good writer
.
Mr. Magoo wrote:
......... it's all an act....
oh, thanks for answering my question. Just as I thought.
Dwayne wrote:
I'm with Brent, banning all TUEs is the only solution. Not fair for some people ? Not everyone has the natural body to run at an elite level. That's a reality of life.
Banning all TUE's sounds nice. Besides the obvious practical problems, in some cases it might not be legal. Under the Americans with Disabilities Act, employers have to make reasonable accommodations for people with disabilities.
To see how this could play out, look at Casey Martin. He's a golfer who has circulatory problems that make it hard for him to walk. When he turned pro, he asked the PGA to let him use a cart during tournaments. They refused. He sued, and the Supreme Court agreed with him.
Interestingly, Martin is now the men's golf coach at the U of O.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PGA_Tour,_Inc._v._MartinMr. Magoo wrote:
agip wrote:unless the agent or salazar was lying
How sharp a blow to your head would it take to get you to accept the obvious fact that Salazar and everyone else with something to lose in this story are dishonest as hell? Salazar has been lying since his own well-documented doping days with Athletics West. Anyone on this board who goes the "Well, I'm keeping an open mind about this until I learn more" isn't being charitable or fair-minded; he's being willfully blind, kind of like I am on my cartoon (but it's all an act; in my real life comings and goings I rock 20/15 vision).
well if USADA wanted an easy thing to investigate they should start there - it's a black and white thing.
Although it is interesting that Simms and not Salazar sent the emails to LRC - gives salazar deniability of course.
Raysism wrote:
Mr. Magoo wrote:So you really believe that EPO is merely an equalizer and that the most talented runners out there gain no benefit from increasing their O2-carrying capacity?
Do you actually hold a medical or other advanced science degree? Because the shit you spout sounds suspiciously like blatant psuedoscience, if it even rises to that level.
I won't use the same level of vitriol, but I have the same question. What is the basis for saying that EPO helps everyone but the best? Is there any science behind that? If you're wiling to admit that EPO helps those below the "top", then I'm not sure the basis for saying that it doesn't help the "top".
And as much as I respect you as a coach, I'm not sure the whole "trust me, I'm experienced" really means much. If EPO helped Lance, who was clearly one of the top cyclists prior to using, I don't understand why it wouldn't help the top East Africans.
Let him keep posting. The lies are evidence, let him keep them coming--in writing, under his name.
I'm 100% supportive of Magness. Here is a young guy who got his dream job with Salazar and left disillusioned. He's been 100% transparent from the start. He's made it his life to study the sport and optimize performance. He'd do hill repeats and stick a needle in his leg to test lactate. He wrote about it. He did everything within legal scientific limit to learn about running. He was a perfect match to work with Salazar except for one thing: Magness cares about the spirit of the law and not just the law itself. This guy walked away from the #1 coach in the world and his dream to quietly blog about science and carry out the rest of his days coaching B caliber athletes honestly.
No one is denying anyone with a disability the right to run or even to race. There are races held every weekend. Representing your country at the highest level or taking a medal at the Olympic Games, is not a right.
AlSal is DONE wrote:
@Magoo.
You are also wrong. Nike state is has a zero tolerance. Salazar says he did nothing "wrong." Do you get it? No, you don't. Nike will not protect Salazar.
Zero tolerance, but Block is in their luxury area? Seems logical.
Agreed with everything except #1 coach in the world. I strongly disagree with that one.
Shoebacca wrote:
I'm 100% supportive of Magness. Here is a young guy who got his dream job with Salazar and left disillusioned. He's been 100% transparent from the start. He's made it his life to study the sport and optimize performance. He'd do hill repeats and stick a needle in his leg to test lactate. He wrote about it. He did everything within legal scientific limit to learn about running. He was a perfect match to work with Salazar except for one thing: Magness cares about the spirit of the law and not just the law itself. This guy walked away from the #1 coach in the world and his dream to quietly blog about science and carry out the rest of his days coaching B caliber athletes honestly.
Raysism wrote:
If EPO helped Lance, who was clearly one of the top cyclists prior to using, I don't understand why it wouldn't help the top East Africans.
This is but one of many available argument-enders on the matter. In a nutshell, the only way that EPO would be of little to no use in marathoners who are at the top of the talent/performance pool is if the entire reason they are at the top is because of a naturally sky-high hematocrit. We know that this is not the case; factors such as running economy and substrate utilization come into play.
Assume for fun that EPO would, on average, produce an improvement of 1.0 percent (very modest) in a marathoner with the ability to run 2:05:00 clean (and it's questionable as to whether such a human exists, but roll with that). An improvement of 1.0 percent translates to a lowering of marathon time of 2:03:45. At that level, that is anything but trivial. And 1.5 percent equals a 2:03:07, and so on.
Maybe my outright bashing of Renato seems unjustified, but that's only because so many here put him on a pedestal as a starting point. Anyone else writing exactly the same posts he does -- even someone known to have multiple advanced degrees in physiology or biology -- would be derided mercilessly.
Renato has no basis at all for his claim about top Kenyans/Ethipians and EPO, and his blatant and bizarre attempt to shift the burden of evidence in this realm to the skeptics is (or should be) extraordinarily telling.