Hey JesseRiley, this is what true dedication looks like (vis-a-vis Dave Proctor skepticism)
This thread was originally titled, "Incredible development in the $612,000 Transcon Goodge run, currently ongoing" but the new title is more descriptive. The description of the run is here.
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stravawatcher wrote:
appropriate language wrote:
The closing seconds of the latest video shows WG wearing a watch over a top and then against his skin. What difference does that make?
Could the so called patterns in data be explained by anything other than watch muling? I don't know, but I think we're miles away from saying that it can't.
I should have noticed this in the video, well spotted. If he is wearing the monitor over clothing at the start of a run and then takes his jacket off and runs the rest with the watch on his skin then this might explain the HR.
If this is the case then, why the hell is Will G's team not pointing this out in some way. It's pretty obvious that reading HR data through a jacket might not give you accurate data!
Because they don't have to defend against people slinging mud. They have a journey they are attempting to complete. Because because someone says you are doing something does not mean you have to waste your valuable time and energy to defend.
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recruiter57 wrote:
BaselineSub4 wrote:
With respect to those defending Goodge, including 'Sneakers
On The Ground', your input is valuable but it's a nonsense, he's supported by
bogus pyramid-selling brands, he's a gym bunny not a runner, his data is irregular,
his HR data is shocking when not observed. I thought he could be a good guy caught
up in a big branding/charity/male model push until he started throwing rocks at
Will C's car, he's clearly now a fraud and to continue to defend him is unseemly. While it's not the be-all and the end-all the HR data is, in itself, pretty damning against Goodge.Holy cow! Really?? Those defending him are providing nonsense??
Who's the "bogus pyramid-selling brands"? Native...not one; Whoop...not one; Puresport...not one; NuCalm...not one
A Gym bunny, not a runner -- says who? What is your definition of a runner? I thought runners came in all shapes and sizes? Come on over to the 21 century!
Data is irregular--I'll give you that, but so what?? Are you saying that if someone doesn't run with a HR monitor that gives back data you deem to be clean is faking it? There have been several people on here that I've checked their Strava and they have many long runs without a HR line...must they be dead or a fake?
I don't condone the rock throwing of the insults at Will C. But, I don't know how I would respond to someone who is calling me a fraud? If I knew they were making it up and trying to call me a fraud, I know I would get pretty angry.
Hello Recruiter57. A few questions for you.
Is it ok that Will G calls himself a world record holder on his site to promote himself while not being one?
Is it ok that Will G calls himself a "fastest Englishman" while not being one?
Is it ok that NuCalm sells rebranded binaural beats and "optional" wrist discs that are a total snake oil/placebo? Is it ok for Will G to promote a brand like this?Runners indeed come in all shapes and sizes. So do frauds.
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Darby wrote:
Stop wrote:
Maybe this has been explained and I missed it, but if he’s switching the watch with other runners that still doesn’t explain why that runner has an unnaturally low heart rate through increasing speeds and different terrain? Unless he’s switching every 5 minutes or something wouldn’t you still expect to see the heart rate going up on the new runner? Or the substitute runner just has some oddity that makes them measure low? But then wouldn’t that be easy to find by looking at the Strava of the companion runners and seeing if anyone regularly shows 110 readings on runs?
I understand what the irregularities are and why people are suspicious - but what is the assumed way of cheating that makes the data make sense?
There's nothing magical about particular numbers. Until you take into account HR max of a person. If a person's max is low, he'll be running very low numbers for a slog like this. Will G's max is at least 195, possibly 200+ (as we know from his marathon where he was hitting close to 190 at some point). My max is around 180 and I never was able to push above 165 in a marathon, final sprint included.
So if they are indeed watch-swapping, then it's apparent that the person running with the low heart rate simply has max 15-20 beats lower than Will G.
I am not saying it happens, can't be bothered to analyze this data, but as I said, it's a scam either way.
Plot twist : willC's analysis unwittingly produces the data NuCalm has been looking for to prove their products work - NuCalm IPO - Team Goodge become tech billionaires - The end
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recruiter57 wrote:
Because they don't have to defend against people slinging mud. They have a journey they are attempting to complete. Because because someone says you are doing something does not mean you have to waste your valuable time and energy to defend.
I have absolutely no dog in this fight. I appreciate and respect anyone who attempts something like this. No way in hell I'd ever want to brave the elements for that many days to take take on this kind of challenge.
That said, this guy has made some big statements. Going for the record, etc. Moreover, he's relying on the good will of people in the form of charitable donations to do it. Accordingly, he should be held accountable. If called out on something, he absolutely should offer evidence rebutting claims of impropriety. Further, what is his team doing in that RV for days on end? He's got multiple people supporting him on location. Surely one of them could devote some time to honestly and effectively addressing valid concerns that have been raised.
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Until somebody shadows him for the rest of this "run" we will never truly know. Unfortunately, LR is not a boots on the ground kind of group, there will be no Laz coming to the rescue.
There will be no "he's wife" with her awful grammar defending him, Goodge himself won't be posting either, nor bragging about how great he is like the failed deejay Rossi.
This guy will go the entire distance, get his accolades from the media and his sponsors and there is nothing LR can do about it. He "wins" and LR loses.
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Darby wrote:
recruiter57 wrote:
Holy cow! Really?? Those defending him are providing nonsense??
Who's the "bogus pyramid-selling brands"? Native...not one; Whoop...not one; Puresport...not one; NuCalm...not one
A Gym bunny, not a runner -- says who? What is your definition of a runner? I thought runners came in all shapes and sizes? Come on over to the 21 century!
Data is irregular--I'll give you that, but so what?? Are you saying that if someone doesn't run with a HR monitor that gives back data you deem to be clean is faking it? There have been several people on here that I've checked their Strava and they have many long runs without a HR line...must they be dead or a fake?
I don't condone the rock throwing of the insults at Will C. But, I don't know how I would respond to someone who is calling me a fraud? If I knew they were making it up and trying to call me a fraud, I know I would get pretty angry.
Hello Recruiter57. A few questions for you.
Is it ok that Will G calls himself a world record holder on his site to promote himself while not being one?
Is it ok that Will G calls himself a "fastest Englishman" while not being one?
Is it ok that NuCalm sells rebranded binaural beats and "optional" wrist discs that are a total snake oil/placebo? Is it ok for Will G to promote a brand like this?Runners indeed come in all shapes and sizes. So do frauds.
He is attempting to set a record. He isn't calling himself a world record holder...yet. And, from this glorious feed, many have stated the current record holder may not really be the record holder. Same goes for fastest Englishman.
Now let me say something blasphemous...Has anyone gone an dug in so deep to the stats of the "supposed" current record holders of both titles? Was this data even available? If not, how are we to know they were "pure"? Based on the standards of those slinging the mud, the irregularities in the HR prove that he is doing something fraudulent. If that is the case, then those with no data could have very well done the same or even worse. (I am sure they are fine people and I'm sure they didn't do anything wrong, but based on the standards of this hunt, it has to be stated)
I don't know much about NuCalm other than what I've seen from WillG's journey, so I can't speak to that. But, if we are going down that rabbit hole, there have been many races that have been sponsored by companies that have done terrible things over time. If we are to judge someone based on who they are sponsored by, what pandoras box are you willing to open?
You are correct, frauds do come in all shapes and sizes. But, so do honest people. Just because he isn't responding the way people would like, just because his team got angry at Will C (and his attacks on them), don't make him a fraud.231 -
Rjdj2 wrote:
said it before and I'll say it again, because he's either cheating, or he's an imbecile with a team full of imbeciles
I have a much stronger theory that this thread is full of imbeciles who keep accusing innocent runners of cheating.
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From the get go this reeked of something. Goodge doesn't look the part of someone who will run across America. Don't let your first impressions fool you.
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recruiter57 wrote:
Darby wrote:
Hello Recruiter57. A few questions for you.
Is it ok that Will G calls himself a world record holder on his site to promote himself while not being one?
Is it ok that Will G calls himself a "fastest Englishman" while not being one?
Is it ok that NuCalm sells rebranded binaural beats and "optional" wrist discs that are a total snake oil/placebo? Is it ok for Will G to promote a brand like this?Runners indeed come in all shapes and sizes. So do frauds.
He is attempting to set a record. He isn't calling himself a world record holder...yet. And, from this glorious feed, many have stated the current record holder may not really be the record holder. Same goes for fastest Englishman.
Now let me say something blasphemous...Has anyone gone an dug in so deep to the stats of the "supposed" current record holders of both titles? Was this data even available? If not, how are we to know they were "pure"? Based on the standards of those slinging the mud, the irregularities in the HR prove that he is doing something fraudulent. If that is the case, then those with no data could have very well done the same or even worse. (I am sure they are fine people and I'm sure they didn't do anything wrong, but based on the standards of this hunt, it has to be stated)I don't know much about NuCalm other than what I've seen from WillG's journey, so I can't speak to that. But, if we are going down that rabbit hole, there have been many races that have been sponsored by companies that have done terrible things over time. If we are to judge someone based on who they are sponsored by, what pandoras box are you willing to open?
You are correct, frauds do come in all shapes and sizes. But, so do honest people. Just because he isn't responding the way people would like, just because his team got angry at Will C (and his attacks on them), don't make him a fraud.
I am referring to this:It says "William Goodge
Former Rugby Player, Fitness Model, Ultra Endurance Runner & World Record Holder."Quick google search reveals that he claims to "unofficially" have broken world record for 48 marathons. Obviously, that's bs. Trust me, I am a world record holder for 3.39 marathons.
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recruiter57 wrote:
Remember when you are reading Will C's "report" that is has been written from the jump with an accusation of fraud. Nothing he has written about Will G has been objective, but slanderous. It will be nothing more than an Op-ed to attempt to confirm his opinions and his analaysis.
You seem suspiciously invested in this
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recruiter57 wrote:
Darby wrote:
Hello Recruiter57. A few questions for you.
Is it ok that Will G calls himself a world record holder on his site to promote himself while not being one?
Is it ok that Will G calls himself a "fastest Englishman" while not being one?
Is it ok that NuCalm sells rebranded binaural beats and "optional" wrist discs that are a total snake oil/placebo? Is it ok for Will G to promote a brand like this?Runners indeed come in all shapes and sizes. So do frauds.
He is attempting to set a record. He isn't calling himself a world record holder...yet. And, from this glorious feed, many have stated the current record holder may not really be the record holder. Same goes for fastest Englishman.
Now let me say something blasphemous...Has anyone gone an dug in so deep to the stats of the "supposed" current record holders of both titles? Was this data even available? If not, how are we to know they were "pure"? Based on the standards of those slinging the mud, the irregularities in the HR prove that he is doing something fraudulent. If that is the case, then those with no data could have very well done the same or even worse. (I am sure they are fine people and I'm sure they didn't do anything wrong, but based on the standards of this hunt, it has to be stated)I don't know much about NuCalm other than what I've seen from WillG's journey, so I can't speak to that. But, if we are going down that rabbit hole, there have been many races that have been sponsored by companies that have done terrible things over time. If we are to judge someone based on who they are sponsored by, what pandoras box are you willing to open?
You are correct, frauds do come in all shapes and sizes. But, so do honest people. Just because he isn't responding the way people would like, just because his team got angry at Will C (and his attacks on them), don't make him a fraud.
this is pretty embarrassing stuff pal.
on his own terms, maybe will goodge is doing fine. loads of soft in the head followers on social media, takes a nice photo, seems to be living an easy life and doing plenty of travelling.
however he undoubtedly looks a total wally for how he's responded to being questioned, he's absolutely making fatuous claims with regard to "world records" and so on, and you're a mug if you don't think nucalm is pseudoscientific nonsense.
this deflection about other record holders is laughable, come on.
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Board Reader wrote:
recruiter57 wrote:
-- Are they not "trustworthy" because they yelled/screamed? Did you see the part where Will C told them "I believe what you are doing is fraudulent" or when it told them what they are doing is criminal and he's going to report them to Scotland Yard (huh??) How would you respond to that type of claim? I'm a pretty calm guy, but I think I would get riled up a bit. Would you just "take" it and say "thank you for your thoughts"??I’d respond the way “RossiCheated” suggested on the previous page of this thread:
If you are claiming to pursue a record of this nature, you should be:
Posting all of the data from the watch
Posting your route, where you currently are (up to the minute GPS), where you are heading for the day
Welcoming anyone and everyone to come out, at any time, to cheer you on as you run by
Welcoming anyone out to run behind you
Welcome to have anyone follow along for as long as they please to verify that you are running, and encouraging them to video record whatever they want
More than happy to have an observer with no relation to you or your team embedded in the team to record everything they see
If you really are pursing this record and think you have a chance at it, you want all the eyes on you possible, to verify that you did it, to quiet the doubters, and so on.This is the real answer here. No excuse really, to not have every single step recorded and available for anyone to watch
It’s honestly bizarre how identical this is to the Rob Young saga.
Half-assed attempt at documenting the real running that leaves ample room for fudging it. Afraid of people asking questions. Hostile to people that want to witness it. Message board defenders. Brand sponsorship. All social media fluff. Charity. British guy.
Didn’t LRC have stuff on the front page once the Rob Young reached a tipping point? Too bad this story hasn’t reached that point yet.
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Has anyone looked at Balenger's data for his efforts. From what I've read, his stuff has been legit. No point in speculating I suppose, but I wonder why he (and multiple filmmakers) would knowingly get involved with this whole thing if it is indeed a sham. Bizarre
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Moo G wrote:
From the get go this reeked of something. Goodge doesn't look the part of someone who will run across America. Don't let your first impressions fool you.
I don't know why you guys don't just accuse Goodge of taking testosterone and other PEDs with the hunky muscles he has instead of wild convoluted conspiracy theories of a twin running. Do you guys need me to give you the accusations you should use?
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Get Rojo on the horn and find out why he hasn’t gotten involved in this thread. This thread has the most activity of any current thread on LR, yet isn’t showing on the top 10 “hot list”. Sounds like additional impropriety. Possible influence from Goodge on the LR brojos here.
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Sneakers On The Ground wrote:
RossiCheated wrote:
I wanted to know this as well.
Is there an insinuation that he is getting on a bike or something that would allow him to move at a given pace at a much lower heart rate?
I don't think any of the crazies here are dumb enough to try to accuse Goodge of using a bike or riding in the RV. The graphs I posted before from Goodge's data with the cadence and stride histograms clearly indicate this is all done on foot. If some of it was done on a bike there would be a different signature with the cadence.
I think we agreed on that ages ago. And this is the question I was asking back well over a week ago.
This is also why I keep emphasising I don’t think he’s cheating, just that something weird is going on according to Will C’s assessment of the data (*) that needs explaining.
The problem is, every few pages somebody comes along, misunderstands the issue and it results in the same talking points.As far as I’m aware / have seen, very few people in this thread have had particularly outlandish thoughts or theories on this. A few have speculatively provided motive for cheating. Some (notably Will C from the off) are completely convinced he is.
*As I’ve said multiple times (including today, and way back when I started commenting), Will C supposedly carried out 10+ hours of research. Nobody is double checking anything close to the entirety of that, therefore it’s being taken at his word that the pattern only exists during official events (which has been checked). I’ve offered the idea of him being wrong as a potential solution, and still think that’s more than plausible.
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Darby wrote:
I am referring to this:It says "William Goodge
Former Rugby Player, Fitness Model, Ultra Endurance Runner & World Record Holder."Quick google search reveals that he claims to "unofficially" have broken world record for 48 marathons. Obviously, that's bs. Trust me, I am a world record holder for 3.39 marathons.
You are correct, I don't see him on Guinness's search. Do we know if he submitted it? I did not follow him during his 48/30 challenge. I understand that Will C is using that as one of his events he is tracking, again going purely at HR. Does he have any evidence of something being off base there (beyond his continued premise of HR)?
What do you mean by 3.39 marathons as a world record? I apologize because I don' know what that means.011 -
recruiter57 wrote:
Darby wrote:
I am referring to this:It says "William Goodge
Former Rugby Player, Fitness Model, Ultra Endurance Runner & World Record Holder."Quick google search reveals that he claims to "unofficially" have broken world record for 48 marathons. Obviously, that's bs. Trust me, I am a world record holder for 3.39 marathons.
You are correct, I don't see him on Guinness's search. Do we know if he submitted it?
What do you mean by 3.39 marathons as a world record? I apologize because I don' know what that means.
What does that matter? You're just trying to muddy the water again. He's not the world record holder. He's claiming false credentials.
Sincerely,
diamondhands
The 2.788 Marathon World Record Holder
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recruiter57 wrote:
Darby wrote:
I am referring to this:It says "William Goodge
Former Rugby Player, Fitness Model, Ultra Endurance Runner & World Record Holder."Quick google search reveals that he claims to "unofficially" have broken world record for 48 marathons. Obviously, that's bs. Trust me, I am a world record holder for 3.39 marathons.
Does he have any evidence of something being off base there (beyond his continued premise of HR)?
What do you mean by 3.39 marathons as a world record? I apologize because I don' know what that means.
Will C’s big, dramatic reveal tomorrow - that he claims he’ll be posting to the Facebook page at 12pm - could clear this up.
Frankly, his theatrics and the way he wiped all the posts on the FB group (which provided countess examples of his issue with the HR data) have done him no favours.41
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