If you had a case I would hear it. But you don't. I have indicated why previously. I'm not interested in labouring to tell you what you don't get.
I laid it out again for you if you forgot. Engage with my assertions. If you don't, I'll assume you agree with me, or you just have an emotional response to my points. Which I guess is fair.
If you think that Tuohy is a doper, and you don’t think that she differs from Valby, that implies that you think Valby is a doper.
Let’s hear it…
Certainly. Hopefully this isn't deleted again. As I stated before, we have outlier musculature (compared to her peers), quick and dominant return from a devastating injury, and a significant performance jump after a long plateau in college. Valby shares all these with Tuohy (aside from the musculature). These are criteria that Astro and Armstronglivs use to identify dopers, and I think it works very well. So I am applying this same criteria to Tuohy
"quick and dominant return from a devastating injury, and a significant performance jump after a long plateau in college."
Leaving appearance aside, you misstate the facts. No "devastating" injury nor "long plateau in college". If you want to focus on appearance gather pics from each year, which are available, and you will see progression.
If you think that Tuohy is a doper, and you don’t think that she differs from Valby, that implies that you think Valby is a doper.
Let’s hear it…
Certainly. Hopefully this isn't deleted again. As I stated before, we have outlier musculature (compared to her peers), quick and dominant return from a devastating injury, and a significant performance jump after a long plateau in college. Valby shares all these with Tuohy (aside from the musculature). These are criteria that Astro and Armstronglivs use to identify dopers, and I think it works very well. So I am applying this same criteria to Tuohy
Tuohy doesn't have a musculature that is suspicious and suggests doping, she hadn't shown a anomalous return from injury and her progression hasn't been questionable. So I say you are wrong on all points of fact. Hence your claims about her are not evidence.
If you had a case I would hear it. But you don't. I have indicated why previously. I'm not interested in labouring to tell you what you don't get.
I laid it out again for you if you forgot. Engage with my assertions. If you don't, I'll assume you agree with me, or you just have an emotional response to my points. Which I guess is fair.
You are good at assuming that which is incorrect. I also don't have an emotional response to what you say beyond boredom.
Certainly. Hopefully this isn't deleted again. As I stated before, we have outlier musculature (compared to her peers), quick and dominant return from a devastating injury, and a significant performance jump after a long plateau in college. Valby shares all these with Tuohy (aside from the musculature). These are criteria that Astro and Armstronglivs use to identify dopers, and I think it works very well. So I am applying this same criteria to Tuohy
"quick and dominant return from a devastating injury, and a significant performance jump after a long plateau in college."
Leaving appearance aside, you misstate the facts. No "devastating" injury nor "long plateau in college". If you want to focus on appearance gather pics from each year, which are available, and you will see progression.
I attempted to post pictures however they were deleted. Knee surgery is pretty major. Again, I am trying to consistently apply Astro's and Armstrongliv's criteria to other athletes. And I think it fits in this case.
Certainly. Hopefully this isn't deleted again. As I stated before, we have outlier musculature (compared to her peers), quick and dominant return from a devastating injury, and a significant performance jump after a long plateau in college. Valby shares all these with Tuohy (aside from the musculature). These are criteria that Astro and Armstronglivs use to identify dopers, and I think it works very well. So I am applying this same criteria to Tuohy
Tuohy doesn't have a musculature that is suspicious and suggests doping, she hadn't shown a anomalous return from injury and her progression hasn't been questionable. So I say you are wrong on all points of fact. Hence your claims about her are not evidence.
I disagree. You can ignore the facts all you want. I personally am a realist about doping. I guess you like to live in lala land and pretend it doesn't happen. If I see something suspicious, I make a note of it.
If you think that Tuohy is a doper, and you don’t think that she differs from Valby, that implies that you think Valby is a doper.
Let’s hear it…
Certainly. Hopefully this isn't deleted again. As I stated before, we have outlier musculature (compared to her peers), quick and dominant return from a devastating injury, and a significant performance jump after a long plateau in college. Valby shares all these with Tuohy (aside from the musculature). These are criteria that Astro and Armstronglivs use to identify dopers, and I think it works very well. So I am applying this same criteria to Tuohy
Do you also think Valby is a doper? You didn’t answer that question.
Certainly. Hopefully this isn't deleted again. As I stated before, we have outlier musculature (compared to her peers), quick and dominant return from a devastating injury, and a significant performance jump after a long plateau in college. Valby shares all these with Tuohy (aside from the musculature). These are criteria that Astro and Armstronglivs use to identify dopers, and I think it works very well. So I am applying this same criteria to Tuohy
Do you also think Valby is a doper? You didn’t answer that question.
Certainly, by the same criteria. I thought that was clear
"quick and dominant return from a devastating injury, and a significant performance jump after a long plateau in college."
Leaving appearance aside, you misstate the facts. No "devastating" injury nor "long plateau in college". If you want to focus on appearance gather pics from each year, which are available, and you will see progression.
I attempted to post pictures however they were deleted. Knee surgery is pretty major. Again, I am trying to consistently apply Astro's and Armstrongliv's criteria to other athletes. And I think it fits in this case.
No, you aren't applying the criteria we have used but you are too dim to realise that.
I attempted to post pictures however they were deleted. Knee surgery is pretty major. Again, I am trying to consistently apply Astro's and Armstrongliv's criteria to other athletes. And I think it fits in this case.
No, you aren't applying the criteria we have used but you are too dim to realise that.
Lay out your criteria. Show me an example. Point out why I am incorrect.
Tuohy doesn't have a musculature that is suspicious and suggests doping, she hadn't shown a anomalous return from injury and her progression hasn't been questionable. So I say you are wrong on all points of fact. Hence your claims about her are not evidence.
I disagree. You can ignore the facts all you want. I personally am a realist about doping. I guess you like to live in lala land and pretend it doesn't happen. If I see something suspicious, I make a note of it.
I disagree. You can ignore the facts all you want. I personally am a realist about doping. I guess you like to live in lala land and pretend it doesn't happen. If I see something suspicious, I make a note of it.
You haven't seen anything suspicious.
Your emotions are clouding your judgement. You seem to be too soft on doping.
In fairness the course is very fast. It was built in 2014 and it is short grass and flat as a pancake. It is described by Texas A&M as a fast course.
Still I think the UF program is suspect and I have not been shy about it.
This is total BS. Several CURRENT Florida athletes competed in the world championships in 2022 and even won medals. Absolutely no positive tests.
Talitha Diggs won a GOLD in the 4x4.
Anna Hall won BRONZE in the heptathlon.
Allison Champion won GOLD in the 4x4 and placed 4th in the individual 400.
Fahnbulleh placed 4th in the 200.
Jasmine Moore was one place away from the final in the triple jump.
Then you have alumni such as Grant Holloway, Cory McGee, Marquis Dendy, Christian Taylor, Will Claye, Hakim Sani Brown, and more.
NO POSITUVE DRUG TESTS. If Florida's best athletes are proven to be clean, how can you accuse Valby who is nowhere near world championship level??
I don't have a reason to believe Valby is doping, but this isn't a great point of defense. Are/were any of these athletes coached by Chris Solinsky? They have little to do with Valby other than putting on the same jersey. Plus no other florida xc women have made a huge jump to relevance relative to previous results.
My point is, it's very hard to keep doping low key when it involves a 70 person team and full staff. No one is accusing the UF track team of having a systemic doping scheme. Just like most of us don't think all of BTC is doping. I think Shelby was, and Jerry was very quick and passionate in his defense.
The TANM course is very fast. Even the coach told LRC-JG that the course has been very dry from no rain and 30-40 m short. Call that 19:05 for a full 6k. For a 15:20 woman on limited training, is it that surprising?
Whittni Orton's 19:16 on FSU course was probably worth something close to this or Ostrander's 19:19 at Wisco. Kelati, Kurgat, Ostrander, Orton, Chelengat, Jones have all put up comparible performances and none of them went on to break 15:10 in the 5k on the track. Sisson still has the indoor 5k record at 15:12 and her finishes at NCAA XC were 15th and 7th.
The thing with XC is, these above athletes need a fast course with a good/sturdy surface, good conditions and to commit to going all out (not tactical), but it's not often not that way. The reason the LACCTIC rating is at 14:51 is because the above rarely happens, at least with also involving a 15:10-15:20 type athlete. A 15:10-15:20 woman running a 19:05 shouldn't surprise anyone. I can't beleive this thread reached 30 pages.
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