Official LRC President Donald J Trump Thread

agip wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

You are correct. They do NOT want Trump to be impeached. Impeachment hearings and the continued cloud over Trump is not something they want as we approach the election. It also sullies Republicans for decades to come if not longer.

We should NEVER look at this as what is good or bad for our party though (in my case the Democrat Party). We should ONLY decide to act if we believe the President has engaged in impeachable offenses. That is clear among Democrats in the House that he has. In my view, they then need to act.

worth a read - from a Princeton historian.

his point is mainly that the Ds should not be frightened of impeachment affecting their chances. The Clinton impeachment was very different from the trump impeachment. Mainly because Clinton was popular and trump isn't.

And Flagpole, they 'key' guy says the Dems need to impeach in order to turn the 'keys' to their favor. You can probably find it if you look.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/05/28/impeachment-not-political-loser-democrats-trump-clinton-column/1212988001/

L L wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

On the other hand, testifying should be done to try to get additional information, NOT to give voters a visual to a report they didn't read.

I disagree.

People often get put on the stand to state facts that are already known.

But on the stand it becomes testimony not a report.

Public opinion will shape the direction of an impeachment.

The public is not going to read the report.

But the public will take note if Mueller publicly speaks to issues of obstruction in front of the cameras.

That is not the wrong way to do it.

It is not unethical.

It will have an impact to hear him speak what he wrote.

Here is a section of the report:

"Trump responded to questions about possible connections to Russia by denying any business involvement

in Russia, even though the Trump Organization had pursued a business project in Russia as late

as June 2016. Trump also expressed skepticism that Russia had hacked the emails at the same

time as he and other Campaign advisors privately sought information about any

further planned WikiLeaks releases. After the election, when questions persisted about possible

links between Russia and the Trump Campaign, the President-Elect continued to deny any

connections to Russia and privately expressed concerns that reports of Russian election

interference might lead the public to question the legitimacy of his election."

Those are powerful words the public has not read.

Have Mueller state that in public testimony and it will influence public opinion.

SilIy WiIly wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

What color is the sky in your world?

1) Mueller's job was NOT to bring indictments. He is exclusively prohibited from doing so, and he has made that crystal clear.

2) Ridiculous to call that a hoax. All those indictments and proof that Russia hacked into the DNC computers and involved themselves in a very serious and complete way to interfere with our election says otherwise.

3) You will be sorely disappointed if you think any big punishments or revelations will be made against those you mentioned.

4) Mueller is still coming. He won't have arrived until all of the investigations that came out of his office are complete.

5) The clown is done.

6) Barr's not coming anywhere unless it's to a buffet table.

1) Mueller's job was absolutely to investigate and bring indictments. That's the job of investigators. Prove someone did something or something occurred, and indict as needed. He stated there was ZERO collusion between Trump and Russia. He also said he couldn't bring a case against Trump for obstruction. It is absolutely NOT his job to "clear" anyone, as we all know, but you folks disingenuously act like the "...we would say so" means anything. It doesn't. They would NEVER say that, and in fact, SHOULD NEVER say that. But silly, desperate fools like yourself fall for it.

2) Not ridiculous. Very clear now, actually.

3) Barr IS COMING. Brennan and Comey and Lynch are pointing fingers, all telling different stories. It's going to be more fun to watch than you continuing to be wrong for years on end (currently approaching 3.5 years, I believe).

4) LOL

5) You continually prove yourself to be the Clown.

6) Barr and Horowitz are going to further destroy your fantasy world of Russian Collusion and Obstruction of a fake investigation. You will be crying again.

Mueller NEVER (he's now retired- LOL).

Clownpole FOREVER.

Barr IS COMING.

Flagpole wrote:

agip wrote:

worth a read - from a Princeton historian.

his point is mainly that the Ds should not be frightened of impeachment affecting their chances. The Clinton impeachment was very different from the trump impeachment. Mainly because Clinton was popular and trump isn't.

And Flagpole, they 'key' guy says the Dems need to impeach in order to turn the 'keys' to their favor. You can probably find it if you look.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/05/28/impeachment-not-political-loser-democrats-trump-clinton-column/1212988001/

Allan Lichtman (the 'keys' guy) shouldn't be talking about impeachment needed. Maybe he is, but that would go against his keys. The "key" is scandal. Trump is involved in scandal, even if the House doesn't impeach.

I agree that Democrats shouldn't fear impeachment affecting their chances in 2020, but I also don't think that should come into play. I want Trump out of office as soon as possible (legally), and I sure don't want to risk him winning another term, but I'm not for either deciding to impeach or not to impeach based on whether Democrats think he will benefit politically or not.

agip wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

Allan Lichtman (the 'keys' guy) shouldn't be talking about impeachment needed. Maybe he is, but that would go against his keys. The "key" is scandal. Trump is involved in scandal, even if the House doesn't impeach.

I agree that Democrats shouldn't fear impeachment affecting their chances in 2020, but I also don't think that should come into play. I want Trump out of office as soon as possible (legally), and I sure don't want to risk him winning another term, but I'm not for either deciding to impeach or not to impeach based on whether Democrats think he will benefit politically or not.

he seems to think you need impeachment to have an authentic scandal.

""Democrats are fundamentally wrong about the politics of impeachment and their prospects for victory in 2020,” he said. “An impeachment and subsequent trial would cost the president a crucial fourth key -- the scandal key -- just as it cost Democrats that key in 2000. The indictment and trial would also expose him to dropping another key by encouraging a serious challenge to his re-nomination. Other potential negative keys include the emergence of a charismatic Democratic challenger, a significant third-party challenge, a foreign policy disaster, or an election-year recession. Without impeachment, however, Democratic prospects are grim.""

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2019/05/29/professor-who-correctly-predicted-last-nine-presidential-election-winners-speaks-up-about-2020-n2546999

Flagpole wrote:

SilIy WiIly wrote:

1) Mueller's job was absolutely to investigate and bring indictments. That's the job of investigators. Prove someone did something or something occurred, and indict as needed. He stated there was ZERO collusion between Trump and Russia. He also said he couldn't bring a case against Trump for obstruction. It is absolutely NOT his job to "clear" anyone, as we all know, but you folks disingenuously act like the "...we would say so" means anything. It doesn't. They would NEVER say that, and in fact, SHOULD NEVER say that. But silly, desperate fools like yourself fall for it.

2) Not ridiculous. Very clear now, actually.

3) Barr IS COMING. Brennan and Comey and Lynch are pointing fingers, all telling different stories. It's going to be more fun to watch than you continuing to be wrong for years on end (currently approaching 3.5 years, I believe).

4) LOL

5) You continually prove yourself to be the Clown.

6) Barr and Horowitz are going to further destroy your fantasy world of Russian Collusion and Obstruction of a fake investigation. You will be crying again.

Mueller NEVER (he's now retired- LOL).

Clownpole FOREVER.

Barr IS COMING.

WTF. You are a loon. I am probably going to have to ban you.

1) Mueller could not indict Trump. He made that crystal clear that he was abiding by the DOJ policy that you can not indict a sitting President. You are greatly affected.

2) Nope...it's ridiculous to call it a hoax. That's complete delusion to say otherwise. This has convinced me...you will be banned by me following this response. I will debate different points of view, but I won't debate crazy, and calling that investigation a hoax is flat out crazy, brother.

3) Barr can step up to the buffet table. I suspect he will not load up on salad.

4, 5, 6 and on to the end of your loony post) - just flat wrong in so many ways.

Mueller is coming.

The clown is done.

I was right that Trump could not win without cheating or help from space aliens. The vast majority of my predictions have already come true, and that will be the case the rest of the way with this serial lying criminal President.

Silly Willy...you are hereby banned by me for reasons previously stated. You will have to change your user name to get a future response from me.

Sally Vix wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

WTF. You are a loon. I am probably going to have to ban you.

1) Mueller could not indict Trump. He made that crystal clear that he was abiding by the DOJ policy that you can not indict a sitting President. You are greatly affected.

2) Nope...it's ridiculous to call it a hoax. That's complete delusion to say otherwise. This has convinced me...you will be banned by me following this response. I will debate different points of view, but I won't debate crazy, and calling that investigation a hoax is flat out crazy, brother.

3) Barr can step up to the buffet table. I suspect he will not load up on salad.

4, 5, 6 and on to the end of your loony post) - just flat wrong in so many ways.

Mueller is coming.

The clown is done.

I was right that Trump could not win without cheating or help from space aliens. The vast majority of my predictions have already come true, and that will be the case the rest of the way with this serial lying criminal President.

Silly Willy...you are hereby banned by me for reasons previously stated. You will have to change your user name to get a future response from me.

Flagpole is about to get banned by Silly Willy and me. Silly Willy said Mueller's job was to bring indictments. Flagpole thought he cleverly skated by this assertion by stating the Mueller, abiding by DOJ policy, would never have indicted Trump. BUT, what Flagpole never addressed, is why Mueller never indicted Don Jr., Kushner, and others close to Trump and Flagpole promised us for years that all those in the Trump clan were going DOWN. Flagpole, are you EVER right??

Flagpole wrote:

L L wrote:

I disagree.

People often get put on the stand to state facts that are already known.

But on the stand it becomes testimony not a report.

Public opinion will shape the direction of an impeachment.

The public is not going to read the report.

But the public will take note if Mueller publicly speaks to issues of obstruction in front of the cameras.

That is not the wrong way to do it.

It is not unethical.

It will have an impact to hear him speak what he wrote.

Here is a section of the report:

"Trump responded to questions about possible connections to Russia by denying any business involvement

in Russia, even though the Trump Organization had pursued a business project in Russia as late

as June 2016. Trump also expressed skepticism that Russia had hacked the emails at the same

time as he and other Campaign advisors privately sought information about any

further planned WikiLeaks releases. After the election, when questions persisted about possible

links between Russia and the Trump Campaign, the President-Elect continued to deny any

connections to Russia and privately expressed concerns that reports of Russian election

interference might lead the public to question the legitimacy of his election."

Those are powerful words the public has not read.

Have Mueller state that in public testimony and it will influence public opinion.

I get your point. I'm trying to be as unbiased and non-partisan as humanly possible here. Often people who testify WILL provide extra info or face punishment if they lie because they are under oath. Bob Mueller has no reason to lie or hide anything that we are aware of. I don't believe it is unethical for the House to subpoena Mueller. It's just not the perfect situation. It's not perfect if they don't do it either.

So...I don't disagree with you. I do WISH it weren't true that Americans need to see a guy speak on television rather than read when he wrote, but I know that's just that...a wish.

Flagpole wrote:

agip wrote:

the takeaways from today:

Ds: Mueller told us today that Trump is likely a criminal but per DOJ guidelines he could not indict him. And his staff behaved very poorly in regard to Russian interference. Congress, stiffen thy spine and impeach. I'm out.

Rs: Mueller today betrayed himself as a radical leftist, out to destroy Trump by any means necessary. And it's not just him - it's the entire former leadership of the FBI.

Is that fair? Did I get the subtle nuances of the right wingers correct?

That is a fair assessment for people who are FIRMLY in their camps and can not be objective. I, though, am not one of those people. I am fair and have 100% integrity 100% of the time and so, the proper reading from today is:

Mueller told us that his work is all spelled out in his work product. He is not going to deal with hypothetical situations or offer his personal opinion, and he told us clearly that he is not going to provide any new information and that he isn't holding anything back. He has NOT told Congress to go impeach. He has said simply that it is not his job or the job of the DOJ to indict a sitting President and that for Presidents there is a political process that can be utilized (impeachment) if Congress decides it needs to. He was very careful not to give his opinion on whether Trump should be impeached, only that his work product is finalized and the level of his authority has been reached.

What do I THINK Mueller believes? Well, since over 1000 former federal prosecutors believe he would be indicted for Obstruction of Justice if not for the fact he is a current sitting President and since we haven't really heard an opposing view of any magnitude from others, odds would say he believes Trump has committed indictable offenses.

We will likely never know what Mueller believes...unless all comes out later and Trump is in prison and Mueller gets a book deal that he wants to take advantage of. I actually hope he doesn't do that. I'm fine with just finding out what happened through legal and normal methods, not tell all books.

agip wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

That is a fair assessment for people who are FIRMLY in their camps and can not be objective. I, though, am not one of those people. I am fair and have 100% integrity 100% of the time and so, the proper reading from today is:

Mueller told us that his work is all spelled out in his work product. He is not going to deal with hypothetical situations or offer his personal opinion, and he told us clearly that he is not going to provide any new information and that he isn't holding anything back. He has NOT told Congress to go impeach. He has said simply that it is not his job or the job of the DOJ to indict a sitting President and that for Presidents there is a political process that can be utilized (impeachment) if Congress decides it needs to. He was very careful not to give his opinion on whether Trump should be impeached, only that his work product is finalized and the level of his authority has been reached.

What do I THINK Mueller believes? Well, since over 1000 former federal prosecutors believe he would be indicted for Obstruction of Justice if not for the fact he is a current sitting President and since we haven't really heard an opposing view of any magnitude from others, odds would say he believes Trump has committed indictable offenses.

We will likely never know what Mueller believes...unless all comes out later and Trump is in prison and Mueller gets a book deal that he wants to take advantage of. I actually hope he doesn't do that. I'm fine with just finding out what happened through legal and normal methods, not tell all books.

I was writing a little hyperbolic, but only a little.

I'd add to your recap that Mueller pointedly said that if Mueller felt Trump were innocent of obstruction, Mueller would have said so in the report. Mueller did not say so in the report.