David Epstein/Pro Publica/BBC Story: Former Team Members Accuse Famed Coach Alberto Salazar of Breaking Drug Rules

AlSal is DONE wrote:

Nike has thrown Salazar under the bus. He is on his own to defend himself. Nike will not try to save him.

Nike has stepped into the doping row involving Mo Farah’s coach Alberto Salazar by stressing it “does not condone the use of performance-enhancing drugs in any manner”.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jun/04/nike-alberto-salazar-mo-farah-doping-row

In what way does this constitute Nike throwing Salazar under the bus? If anything it states the opposite. There's a throwaway condemnation of PED use and acknowledgment that Rupp and Al Sal have stated their positions. Unless incontrovertible evidence of PED use by NOP members comes to light, Al Sal's job is safe.

Two sided mouth wrote:

Look...When Galen and Al become a liability...they will be left to hang in the wind. Just like Lance. Galen and Al, if you're reading this...they have your back...until they don't.

Wrong. You do not understand how top lawyers work. Salazar and Rupp hung themselves with their public statements. Nike absolutely WILL NOT have their backs. That is very clear from Nike's statement. Salazar and Rupp are on their own.

Mr. Magoo wrote:

the truth is simply painful to acknowledge

This sums up my feelings this morning. I'm certainly a skeptic when it comes sports and PEDs, but had hoped that Salazar/NOP was truly operating in the grey area and keeping things legal, both by the rules and ethically. As always, most things are too good to be true.

Some random thoughts…

Props to Magness.

Haven't had a chance to read the article yet, as I've been consumed with this 30 page thread, but Goucher needs to come clean if she hasn't already. If NOP is using PEDs, then she was part of it. I guarantee it. She was Salazar's golden girl. He even ostracized Begley for not following the Goucher-plan in '08.

If it's true, no sympathies for Salazar. But I'll admit there is a part of me feeling bad for Rupp. I know he's a grown man and responsible for his own decisions, but I'm guessing he was manipulated at a young age. Rupp is fully culpable, but I'm just being honest on how I feel right now. I'm sure I'll lose any sympathies as more information comes forward.

Curious as to how many posters that have put the noose around Rupp's neck, still think Armstrong is a 7-time TdF champion? Not defending Rupp, but see so much hypocrisy on this board.

If Salazar can't clear the NOP from suspicions, which I doubt he'll be able to do, Cain will not be going back to Oregon. I think her recent break and trip home could have been nothing more than a 19-year old college freshman needing some time off and time at home. That said, I don't expect her back in Portland. She should hook up with Gags.

Again, assuming the allegations stick, what is the clean AR for the 10,000? I'm not convinced Solinsky, who was injury-plagued, could have 3 clean performances faster than a dirty Rupp at 5,000 meters and sub 27. Someone needs to ask Schumacher about thyroid meds and his group. There was a good post last year during the Malmo vs. A Duck pissing match that mentioned Jerry's kids were also using thyroid meds, but I believe the post was deleted.

@Magoo.

You are also wrong. Nike state is has a zero tolerance. Salazar says he did nothing "wrong." Do you get it? No, you don't. Nike will not protect Salazar.

People have said before that Galen didn't have TUEs. Now he has a TUE for everything. Great. So when it comes out he was using xenon, it will be "it wasn't banned yet" and "it didn't work so he doesn't do it anymore" and "newsflash he has renal kidney failure and needs it to survive".

A previous poster questioned the effects of prednisone as a PED citing his experience with using prednisone in treating ulcerative colitis. I know three people who have taken prednisone for Crohn's disease. Their physicians tried to get them off prednisone as quickly as possible. The side effects of prednisone, at those relatively low doses, would seem to mitigate any performance enhancing effect. I know one person who had to take massive doses of prednisone in order to treat giant cell arteritis. In large doses, prednisone is clearly not a PED. It is very toxic.

I believe Magness. I think there is a problem at NOP. and in track and field in general. Not enough is known at present about NOP"s activities to understand exactly what they were doing.

I think we're saying the same thing. "they have your back...until they don't" means that if it gets messy, Nike will make a statement, and cut bait. They're expendable.

AlSal is DONE wrote:

Two sided mouth wrote:

Look...When Galen and Al become a liability...they will be left to hang in the wind. Just like Lance. Galen and Al, if you're reading this...they have your back...until they don't.

Wrong. You do not understand how top lawyers work. Salazar and Rupp hung themselves with their public statements. Nike absolutely WILL NOT have their backs. That is very clear from Nike's statement. Salazar and Rupp are on their own.

Not defending Slaney, but developing asthma later in life is not unusual. I developed mine after the age of 40 and it has certainly impacted my running. Plus, I'm just getting old!

You all .... the biggest takeaway is that this is all a pointless never-ending carousal. Sure if AlSal, NOP and Co broke rules then screw them, but this will never, ever, ever, ever stop until we all wake up and realize that running around frantically trying to stop "doping" is IMPOSSIBLE and UNREASONABLE.

1) Livelihood, fame, profit and fortune make give entities a never-ending supply of motivation to find new technologies to push the envelope and win.

2) That motivation, along with the magic of biotech, will yield a never ending supply of "doping" of ever-increasing complexity and sophistication.

In the end, the War on Drugs in Sports is just as useful as the broader War on Drugs incessantly driven by the DEA. And of course the two are linked in much more than their pitiful cost/benefit ratio.

You just don't get it wrote:

Dear Wejo,

I'm sorry to say, but you just don't understand how this whole thing works. This is way over your head. News flash for everyone, GALEN HAS HYPOGONADISM meaning HE HAS A T.U.E FOR TESTOSTERONE. .

So. This is at least possible.

Would WADA/USADA or whoever give a TUE for actual testosterone? Do we know the answer to this?

and hasn't salazar said that there are no long term TUEs at NOP? Just TUEs for short periods of time? If he is telling the truth, that blows a hole in the hypogonadism thesis - that doesn't cure itself, does it?

AlSal is DONE wrote:

@Magoo.

You are also wrong. Nike state is has a zero tolerance. Salazar says he did nothing "wrong." Do you get it? No, you don't. Nike will not protect Salazar.

Read what I wrote again. I said or at least implied that if indisputable evidence or doping comes to light, Nike won't ignore it and Salazar will be gone. Or maybe I didn't really imply that, but my contention (and I could be wrong) is that Salazar is in the clear for now. Hopefully this changes, because in my experience he is a shitweasel and needs to be out on his ass.

I love the argument that numerous people have posted:

Logic is something like: It would be so stupid to do X, Y, and Z, so clearly no one would ever do X, Y, and Z. Therefore, these allegations are unfounded.

A "shocking" thing about nearly all the major drug revelations in endurance sports is how cavalier/careless (i.e., arrogant) those who got caught were about their methods.

We saw it with Lance. We saw it with BALCO. We saw it with all the drug scandals in cycling with people simply getting caught with drugs in their cars/luggage/etc.

That doesn't mean the allegations are true. But being stupid has never stopped anyone from doping.

One reason it seems like systematic doping never stays underground is simply that it requires too many people to be involved. Someone will speak and then more people will speak. We saw this with cycling. For example, with Lance, so many people knew something -- even if each person only had one little story here, another there. Taken together all their evidence is damning.

jaybeel wrote:

You all .... the biggest takeaway is that this is all a pointless never-ending carousel. Sure if AlSal, NOP and Co broke rules then screw them, but this will never, ever, ever, ever stop until we all wake up and realize that running around frantically trying to stop "doping" is IMPOSSIBLE and UNREASONABLE.

1) Livelihood, fame, profit and fortune make give entities a never-ending supply of motivation to find new technologies to push the envelope and win.

2) That motivation, along with the magic of biotech, will yield a never ending supply of "doping" of ever-increasing complexity and sophistication.

In the end, the War on Drugs in Sports is just as useful as the broader War on Drugs incessantly driven by the DEA. And of course the two are linked in much more than their pitiful cost/benefit ratio.

Well put.

erik wrote:

One reason it seems like systematic doping never stays underground is simply that it requires too many people to be involved. Someone will speak and then more people will speak. We saw this with cycling. For example, with Lance, so many people knew something -- even if each person only had one little story here, another there. Taken together all their evidence is damning.

Also, systematic doping is something that gets worse with time. In a way like alcohol abuse. As time goes by you need more and more to get the same buzz, or benefit. Salazar's slow-steady progress similar to the need to increase usage over an extended period of time.

It's only one camera in public! It's not like I'm watching you in your home! Who would do that and think it's entertainment? I'm sure you will feel as comfortable as I do. I mean, maybe you can now imagine how I have been feeling for years. Why I ended up in a hospital

You just don't get it wrote:

Dear Wejo,

I'm sorry to say, but you just don't understand how this whole thing works. This is way over your head. News flash for everyone, GALEN HAS HYPOGONADISM meaning HE HAS A T.U.E FOR TESTOSTERONE. Did you really think Alberto would be so stupid to have his guy on testosterone without approval from WADA? .

Please provide some proof of this.

So Galen has a "get out of free jail card" to basically become a male version of Caster Semenya?

If your story was true, don't you think Alberto would have told Stiner or Malmo this when he was trying to explain away the androgel being in the room? Totally not believable. If he's got a TUE for it, they would announce it as the key allegations are the androgel.

Here is what happened.

Salazar has been a jerk since he was in high school or before. He went to Oregon, which had consistently skirted the rules since early in Bowerman\'s career. Salazar's pathological low self-esteem led him to take PEDs. He justified it in his own mind, but that is what psychopaths do.

At Athletics West, there was the beginning of organized doping. They were quite amateurish about their methods, but for the most part got away with it. One casualty was the death of Jeff Drenth from AW drugs. Hey, anything for a shot at making a national team. This was swept under the rug by Nike and largely forgotten. Mary Decker had many famous exhibitions of roid rage, culminating in her criminal actions against the media darling Zola Budd. Decker was popped, but again, Nike did their best to protect her coach Salazar. Salazar was promoted.

Salazar wrote his article stating that it is impossible to be world class or win Olympic medals without being a doper.

Salazar found the perfect vehicle to exploit in Galen Rupp. Rupp was a goofy looking kid, well below average in intelligence and completely lacking in personality. His career prospects were limited, to say the least. This kid was looking at a lifetime of cleaning Burger King toilets, if he was that lucky. Salazar started the kid on dope, and the kid became quite good.

Rupp had no chance to go to a real college. The U of Oregon was convinced to let him enroll in correspondence courses. After much NCAA success, Rupp exhausted his eligibility and was forced to drop out. He only clompleted 3 years of coursework in his 4++ years at Oregon.

NOP had been formed but not successful despite a tremendous amount of resources. Salazar wrote his famous article where he stated that it is impossible to be world class or win Olympic medals without doping. They brought in Rupp, Centro, Goucher and others willing to submit to the full doping program.

NOP's big break came when the British decided that they needed gold medals for their London Olympics. They sent Mo Farah to NOP and told him to take whatever drugs he was offered and not to ask any questions.

Goucher was cut from NOP for lack of progress.

NOP and Salazar were continuously accused of being a dope ring. The pressure got to Salazar. He imploded at Albuquerque and attacked competitors and officials. Nike payed off USATF, and Salazar was not sanctioned.

The BBC came out with their little program about the NOP doping scheme.

Goucher will go on talk shows and shed some tears. She will try to parlay this into a few more years of fame. She will not pay back the NOP money.

Nike will make sure that Salazar goes on as usual. Rupp, Centro and Mo will continue to compete without remorse. Because that is what psychopaths do.

The writer/singer/poet/filmmaker/actress/professional athlete Alexi Pappas will convince her boyfriend to film a NOP documentary. She will insist on being credited as co-director.

rojo wrote:

If your story was true, don't you think Alberto would have told Stiner or Malmo this when he was trying to explain away the androgel being in the room? Totally not believable. If he's got a TUE for it, they would announce it as the key allegations are the androgel.

The problem with having a TUE is that would be easy to abuse the prescribed dosage. Once only as needed could easily become always once a day.

You just don't get it wrote:

Dear Wejo,

I'm sorry to say, but you just don't understand how this whole thing works. This is way over your head. News flash for everyone, GALEN HAS HYPOGONADISM meaning HE HAS A T.U.E FOR TESTOSTERONE. Did you really think Alberto would be so stupid to have his guy on testosterone without approval from WADA?

Not stupid, just enterprising and willing to take risks, like every other doping coach (note the double entendre) around the world -- Hermens, Rosa, and "agents" like Hussein Makke (see Asmae Leghzaoui, others).

erik nailed it. Salazar is unquestionably a megalomaniac by any formal psychological definition. By the time he started leaving his works around hotel rooms and shit, he'd become emboldened, and his ego began to make inroads on his judgment and level of care in a way comparable to a few shots of liquor. Power is Salazar's elixir, and he drank a little too deeply of it along the way, like they all do.