cwarcarblue11 wrote:
NOP American guys would crush the 4xmile record.
Murphy, Engels, Jenkins, and Brazier (or Rupp)
Unless they do it, they haven't done it, and won't be credited for doing it. Today's Brooks Beasts hold the WR. Pure and simple. Congrats to the Beasts. You rightly celebrated on your victory lap. WR holders!
dsfsd wrote:
ayyyyy wrote:
Is it true Engels did a white power salute when he crossed the finish line to send a message to African runners everywhere?
You just completely made this up?
This is the way people are now, man. Pretty weak post content from an obvious turd.
toomanyspikes wrote:
Alright we'll agree to disagree.
Nobody "agreed to disagree" with you. Can you use any other ridiculous cliches or lame modern buzzwords? Hint: Let's empower ourselves, per se, to agree to disagree about the monies earmarked for improving one's skill set on wellness issues, if you will. After all, it is what it is, at the end of the day.
ayyyyy wrote:
not so fast. wrote:
Cain's 9:38 two mile indoors is still better.
Pretty similar times. They can both be good tho.
No. Cain's 9:38.68 from 2013 is significantly better than what Tuohy ran today. Here is what we wrote about Cain's 9:38.68 time.
"Today’s run equates to approximately 8:55.82 for 3000 and 4:07.82 for 1500."
But the greatest HS performance ever is Cain's 4:04.62 for 1500 that she ran later that summer. That equates to about an 8:48.91 3000.
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2013/01/mary-cain-runs-902-10-for-3000-arguably-the-great-distance-performance-in-high-school-history/"Would" isn't "did" wrote:
cwarcarblue11 wrote:
NOP American guys would crush the 4xmile record.
Murphy, Engels, Jenkins, and Brazier (or Rupp)
Unless they do it, they haven't done it, and won't be credited for doing it. Today's Brooks Beasts hold the WR. Pure and simple. Congrats to the Beasts. You rightly celebrated on your victory lap. WR holders!
Questioning the strength of a record is distinct from questioning its legitimacy, and you’re being disingenuous in misinterpreting and arguing against mere implications instead of content.
Congrats to the Beasts. Indoor 4xMile relay world best holders.
one more thing about Cain. Someone sad she was a senior when she ran those times. That's not true. She was a junior and she ran her 2 mile at a younger age than Tuohy.
When Cain ran 9:38 she was 6130 days old.
Tuohy is 6158 days old.
Let’s not forget that’s Cain was the World Junior Champion over 3000m outdoors. Tuohy is on a great trajectory.
rojo wrote:
ayyyyy wrote:
Pretty similar times. They can both be good tho.
No. Cain's 9:38.68 from 2013 is significantly better than what Tuohy ran today. Here is what we wrote about Cain's 9:38.68 time.
"Today’s run equates to approximately 8:55.82 for 3000 and 4:07.82 for 1500."
But the greatest HS performance ever is Cain's 4:04.62 for 1500 that she ran later that summer. That equates to about an 8:48.91 3000.
How can you say Cain's 4:04 was the greatest HS performance when Efraimson ran 4:03 a year or 2 later.
toomanyspikes wrote:
Indoor? wrote:
In my opinion not doing the training and racing it has taken her to get here would indefinitely preserve her career.
Completely different events and athletes. Hard to compare a sprint/speed based 800 runner to distance runners like Cain & Tuohy.
Alright we'll agree to disagree. I think it's hard to tell a burnout is happening until it's already in front of you and Tuohy obviously wants the most out of her high school career that she can get. Maybe it'll end up having her burn out, but that's her choice and hers alone, plus I'm not too familiar with her training so personally I think it's hard to try and justify predictions about that.
On your second point, why's that so hard to compare? Legitimate question, I don't think there's much difference between the two since "burning out" is just such a broad term, but if you have specifics you're referencing then I wanna hear where you're coming from.
While I can somewhat agree it’s hard to predict burnout for sure I feel I’m pretty good at giving a good guess and so our others. On these boards I’ve called Cain when she was at the height of running fast as well as Sarah Baxter, Claudia Lane and more. I’ve probably been wrong on some too. From my opinion as a coach on a more local level when I see girls train hard and have huge success early, and then push that success incredibly far it almost always leads to burn out. One thing we are beginning to notice is that high level training will kind of hold the last step of puberty for some girls, but that just means when it does come, it comes hard, ala Cain, you can’t look at her and say her body is the same as it was when she was running fast. No idea if there is anything scientific to that but I know what I’ve witness both at elite and local levels and it’s petty consistent. As we tend to expect and plan for a let down year sophomore year of HS we almost always have our athletes emerge stronger on the other side of that. Tuohy has talked numerous times how hard she works. What room is she going to have to improve if she is already working extremely hard and potentially has body changes coming too. She couldn’t close with B level pros today working that hard, yes she ran fast and it was a gutsy awesome race. But to make the Olympics in 2020 or ever she has to run that race and then be ready to close in a 58-59. Does that seem likely given that she never stops to develop herself and just keeps chasing fast times.
In regards to the differences between speed based 800 and distance type miles-5kers. To me it’s just that Wilson is a talent based sprinter type who didn’t train a ton at a younger age. Plus the shorter training isn’t maximizing yourself as much as it is just building strength. I guess in short I feel like focusing on the 800 good training is working hard and racing a lot but focusing on longer stuff needs to build more base, tempos, and also all out speed. But constantly trying to be in race shape doesn’t lend to that.
wineturtle wrote:
[quote]winning time wrote:
They needed a sub16:08.54 for USA Absolute record and got it.
old AM Best in-or-out
4 x Mile+ 16:08.54 Athletics West Eugene, Oregon 5/04/84
(Dan Aldridge 4:03.4, Doug Padilla 4:04.7, Tom Smith 4:01.9, Chuck Aragon 3:58.6)
Tuochy did not break 9:00
How many were wearing 4%'s?
Cain is not reduced to an asterisk. She was a World Junior champion. Wake me up when the USA gets another one in the middle distances or distances.
rojo wrote:
one more thing about Cain. Someone sad she was a senior when she ran those times. That's not true. She was a junior and she ran her 2 mile at a younger age than Tuohy.
When Cain ran 9:38 she was 6130 days old.
Tuohy is 6158 days old.
And Alexa was 6191 days when she ran 9:00.16
Indoor? wrote:
toomanyspikes wrote:
Alright we'll agree to disagree. I think it's hard to tell a burnout is happening until it's already in front of you and Tuohy obviously wants the most out of her high school career that she can get. Maybe it'll end up having her burn out, but that's her choice and hers alone, plus I'm not too familiar with her training so personally I think it's hard to try and justify predictions about that.
On your second point, why's that so hard to compare? Legitimate question, I don't think there's much difference between the two since "burning out" is just such a broad term, but if you have specifics you're referencing then I wanna hear where you're coming from.
While I can somewhat agree it’s hard to predict burnout for sure I feel I’m pretty good at giving a good guess and so our others. On these boards I’ve called Cain when she was at the height of running fast as well as Sarah Baxter, Claudia Lane and more. I’ve probably been wrong on some too. From my opinion as a coach on a more local level when I see girls train hard and have huge success early, and then push that success incredibly far it almost always leads to burn out. One thing we are beginning to notice is that high level training will kind of hold the last step of puberty for some girls, but that just means when it does come, it comes hard, ala Cain, you can’t look at her and say her body is the same as it was when she was running fast. No idea if there is anything scientific to that but I know what I’ve witness both at elite and local levels and it’s petty consistent. As we tend to expect and plan for a let down year sophomore year of HS we almost always have our athletes emerge stronger on the other side of that. Tuohy has talked numerous times how hard she works. What room is she going to have to improve if she is already working extremely hard and potentially has body changes coming too. She couldn’t close with B level pros today working that hard, yes she ran fast and it was a gutsy awesome race. But to make the Olympics in 2020 or ever she has to run that race and then be ready to close in a 58-59. Does that seem likely given that she never stops to develop herself and just keeps chasing fast times.
In regards to the differences between speed based 800 and distance type miles-5kers. To me it’s just that Wilson is a talent based sprinter type who didn’t train a ton at a younger age. Plus the shorter training isn’t maximizing yourself as much as it is just building strength. I guess in short I feel like focusing on the 800 good training is working hard and racing a lot but focusing on longer stuff needs to build more base, tempos, and also all out speed. But constantly trying to be in race shape doesn’t lend to that.
Some fair points; I still think that predicting burnout is difficult if we don't know specifics on her training levels and how hard she's pushing herself, but like you said, puberty is always an unknown in there that could slow her down. Thanks for the clarification on the differences you were referencing, I see where you're coming from now. Hopefully Tuohy ends up becoming one of the greats and not burning out, it would be awesome to see a young phenom like her develop well!
toomanyspikes wrote:
Hopefully Tuohy ends up becoming one of the greats and not burning out, it would be awesome to see a young phenom like her develop well!
I agree, unfortunately I take my views to the point of thinking that what currently has us calling her a phenom being the vehicle that means she will not develop well. But I would certainly prefer to be wrong!
rojo wrote:
No. Cain's 9:38.68 from 2013 is significantly better than what Tuohy ran today.
I know it's your thing to be unimpressed by greatness, but I'll bite anyway. I would say a few seconds over 3000 is significantly similar.
It also seems obvious to me that Tuohy is the better runner of the two, if you must compare them. Cain was unbelievably great in spite of her weird form, which probably played a role in the troubles she had after high school. Tuohy is the picture of strength and efficiency. I'm going to sit back and enjoy watching her break the other high school distance records. I'll be looking out for your upcoming thread about how she sucks compared to Shelby Houlihan.
noticer of an attitude wrote:
https://www.armorytrack.com/gprofile.php?mgroup_id=45586&do=videos&video_id=263768Blondie sure has a bit of a 'tude. What's her deal? She won't even look at the hot chick of color right next to her. Might be some serious issues for coach in the future.
look about 30 seconds in and watch.
Do we have a breakdown of each guy's splits for the 4xmile record?
“Never stops to develop herself and just chases times”
Can you explain this and say what this would look like? What races/times/training would she be doing instead, and how would you know if she were doing it?
Also, you dont have to explain the science of your approach, but can you give examples of world class women who used your model of developing instead of getting faster?
Thanks for the input!
This whole interview was unintentionally hilarious. From the girl next to her accidentally sneezing on her shoulder and upsetting her. To them all kinda laughing at the interviewer asking probably one too many questions to her.
noticer of an attitude wrote:
https://www.armorytrack.com/gprofile.php?mgroup_id=45586&do=videos&video_id=263768Blondie sure has a bit of a 'tude. What's her deal? She won't even look at the hot chick of color right next to her. Might be some serious issues for coach in the future.
rojo wrote:
No. Cain's 9:38.68 from 2013 is significantly better than what Tuohy ran today. Here is what we wrote about Cain's 9:38.68 time.
"Today’s run equates to approximately 8:55.82 for 3000 and 4:07.82 for 1500."
I'm curious about how this conversion works. When I see the time of 9:38 for 2 mile I immediately think "oh thats about a 9 flat 3k" no one thinks "oh thats about an 8:55 3k".
She runs 9:38.68 for 3218 meters, thats 39.19 seconds/218 meters so she crossed 3000 in 8:59. Where is JK getting these extra 4 seconds from? There's no doubt in my mid that Cains performance was better, I just don't think that it was worth 8:55.