2018 NCAA "American Only" Cross Country Results (Men)

You sound like you're ready to mix the Kool-Aid for your flock.

Lickety Split wrote:

- "Clinger" Yes ... I think "Clinger" would have left because he saw the "writing on the wall" with NAU. That said, I don't know "Clinger" because I don't pay attention to BYU athletes.

- 24 Year-olds running vs 18-Year Olds: yes, particularly when they are foreigners or LDS Mission + Redshirt athletes. They should compete in the NAIA who welcome such athletes. The only ones that should rate an age waiver are military veterans.

FYI: Casey Clinger, only two time NXN individual champ in history and 24th placer at NCAA Cross last year as a true frosh.

I think what the previous poster meant was that at universities WITHOUT missions you have 24 year olds on the team. Graduate from high school at 19 (old but not unheard of) and 1 red shirt + 4 years of eligibility later => 24 years old as a senior. The 26 year olds would be 24 if they didn't go on a mission, not 18.

Lickety Split wrote:

Yes. I'm convinced that Coach Eyestone & his athletes deliberately sequence "missions" to stack their teams in certain years for success.

I think you give the desire for success in collegiate running far too much credit.

What is the primary goal for your average student athlete?

1. To get through college and embark on a career, or if the athlete is truly elite, to have a career to fall back on after a generally short athletic career. ($$$ baby!).

Lets see,

A mission delays graduation by two years, and if you do go pro in athletics, that's potentially losing two years in an already short athletic career.

Makes a lot of sense to me, lets delay our careers for two years, so that later we can get back in shape and have a two year age advantage over some american high school graduate athletes.

If that is the primary motivation/purpose of a mission then man, I applaud these athletes on that account. What a sacrifice, way to take one for the team!

- Lickety's LDS/BYU Math: Graduate HS at 19, LDS Mission x 2 years (21), Redshirt Freshmen Year to get back in shape (22), & then you get 4 more years as a grown man at ALTITUDE w/a great coach & a well-funded/focused program to run against teen-agers & young adults. It's too bad our nation issues "Green Cards" to Rift Valley athletes that can't prove their birthday ... a complaint registered every World University or World Junior event.

- Can't figure out why the mission waiver proves exclusive to LDS vs athletes at Notre Dame, Liberty, Baylor, Holy Cross, Brandeis & other faith-based schools. Why did it end w/the Mormons?

Foreign Runners is probably the wave of the future, several countries have only foreigners competing in International races examples Turkey, Bahrain, Qatar, and even France to a lesser extent, The USA does not recruit foreigners, but many come for a better way of life, and making it to Worlds/Olympics for distance runners is easier for former Kenyans then if they were competing for Kenya, The USA still (And always will)develops real Americans to a high level like Evan Jager and Galen Rupp, Same with Great Britain Farah has been there top runner lately but Britain Keeps producing runners, Like Coe, Cram Ovett, B. Foster, Moorecroft etc. and always will in fact many expect Max Burgin to be better than any of them from 800-5000, but most countries are lazy and it is easier to recruit an already made runner, than to develop one from scratch, as Salazar did with Rupp when he saw him playing soccer and said hey you have a good stride, you might be good at running do you want to try it? and the rest is history.

I used countries but the same applies with schools, it is easier to recruit than develop.

sillyman wrote:

Lickety Split wrote:

- None of these guys scored.

So what, you jingoistic fool

- Yes "SillyMan" .... I'm jingoistic against funding the ICCA Cross-Country & Track n Field sham we have going on w/the LDS, ANZACs, & Rift Valley Express. That said, here's further analysis for all you high school seniors and aspiring JUCO middle-distance & long-distance runners on Lickety's Evaluation Criteria in priority order based upon recent Cross-Country Championships.

#1 Altitude. You have to go there given the 35% statistic & that the LDS/Rift Valley Boys grew up in them thar hills. This significantly limits your choices .... particularly East Coast: not even sure if Appy State hits 3K. Again, .... GEOGRAPHY MATTERS in your career. It's beyond me why New Mexico & NAU have to recruit Brits & ANZACs .... furthermore, why Colorado College, Nevada-Reno, UTEP, St Johns, etc. haven't figured this out & invested in their programs I don't know.

#2 Coaches ... in other words, if dudes at these Altitude schools feel that they have to recruit foreigners then maybe they're really not that good of coaches after all.

#3 Medical ... count on getting hurt wherever you are: most REGULAR Americans know that they have only 4-5 years to give it a go before graduation OR the young dudes try to hang w/the LDS & Foreign 26 year-olds & get hurt. You need a school that can take care of you when you get banged up!

#4 Team ... you're going to have a better chance at making the NCAAs on a Cross-Country team than via individual times both indoor or outdoor: particularly if you're dealing with ALTITUDE.

#5 Academics .... again, if you want to focus on academics then it's UNLIKELY you'll either be competitive for the national championships. Please see my previous note about AMORICA'S TEAMS .... they'll never win again. Furthermore, if you're smart enough to get into those schools you'll likely receive academic scholarships to places like NAU, Adams State, UTEP, Boise State, etc.

#6 Facilities .... the most OVERRATED criteria that folks like AMORICA's TEAMS will try to promote. Great locker-rooms, WIFI everywhere, stupid BS like that which has nothing to do w/making you faster.

- WCAP recruits foreigners!

No one in American history is a "real American" unless everyone is. Everyone came here from somewhere else at some point. To pretend you are using some objective criteria to determine this is just a shroud for bigotry. Who made up your All American roster in 1630? All those pasty WASPy people were newcomers back in the day.

As for BYU, Mormonism was born in the United States and has a story that puts Jesus on the continent; it is the most "American" of any religion.

- Objective Criteria: you mean citizenship IS NOT objective less the WCAP scam?

- Are you traveling in a caravan right now?

Lickety Split wrote:

- Can't figure out why the mission waiver proves exclusive to LDS vs athletes at Notre Dame, Liberty, Baylor, Holy Cross, Brandeis & other faith-based schools. Why did it end w/the Mormons?

it's not exclusive to lds athletes it can be for any other religion. there are 3 "Ms". mission military and maternity. the ncaa will give a clock extension to anyone involved in those 3 Ms. doesn't matter the religion.

This has got to be one of the dumbest threads I've seen on LRC. An incredible accomplishment!

I've always been an advocate of prioritizing U.S. athlete's with regard to roster spots/scholarship money. I don't have an issue with foreign runners competing in the NCAA, but in a limited capacity. I do have a problem with teams loading their rosters with foreign born athletes that take away the opportunities of U.S. athletes in U.S. colleges. One solution would be to limit the number of "Foreign" scholarships/roster spots available and or require a certain percentage of the Top 7 eligible scoring runners be American. The age issue also must be addressed. Regardless of going on a mission or whatever you can't have a 26-27 year old competing against a 18-21 year old.

i don't have a name on here wrote:

Lickety Split wrote:

- Can't figure out why the mission waiver proves exclusive to LDS vs athletes at Notre Dame, Liberty, Baylor, Holy Cross, Brandeis & other faith-based schools. Why did it end w/the Mormons?

it's not exclusive to lds athletes it can be for any other religion. there are 3 "Ms". mission military and maternity. the ncaa will give a clock extension to anyone involved in those 3 Ms. doesn't matter the religion.

- Thanks for clarifying that ONLY BYU is "cashing-in" on this "M."

BUTTHOLE SURFER wrote:

I've always been an advocate of prioritizing U.S. athlete's with regard to roster spots/scholarship money. I don't have an issue with foreign runners competing in the NCAA, but in a limited capacity. I do have a problem with teams loading their rosters with foreign born athletes that take away the opportunities of U.S. athletes in U.S. colleges. One solution would be to limit the number of "Foreign" scholarships/roster spots available and or require a certain percentage of the Top 7 eligible scoring runners be American. The age issue also must be addressed. Regardless of going on a mission or whatever you can't have a 26-27 year old competing against a 18-21 year old.

- They, the foreigners, do it to our athletes all the time .... CFL, overseas pro-basketball, etc.

- Finally, an enlighened one!

#1 no doubt you're a white dude. the odds of you being on this website make that almost true from the get go plus you made this thread about trying to get "foreigners" out and you seem to get emotional/defensive responding to comments. that's just not a good look but you might not be, unfortunately, in the wrong place to drum up some support.

#2 you're missing a huge systemic flaw in your argument. you're going after the kids when what you should be talking about is the NCAA's role, athletic director's roles, the role of money, the role of needing to be able to produce in all of this. With the way college athletics operates in the US, it's basically a minor leagues. Not as much hype for XC but kids still fly around the country to compete and coaches need to produce. So they go after the best talent they can find. Instead of going after the kids and crafting an anti immigrant argument (which includes white runners for sure), why not look at the bigger targets. Like a white runner shouldn't read this and be angry at "foreign runners." The way you frame your argument is divisive. It's anti immigrant and anti POC. The NCAA system is about putting the best team out there. If better basketball players were outside of the US then you'd see college teams have more "foreign" players. I don't think we should be hating on kids for wanting to run here when it opens them up more doors for potential sponsors, the opportunity to connect with post collegiate training groups. We can't kid ourselves that college athletics aren't a minor league system. We don't have to get all nationalist to make that point.

- Sterotyping me, amigo? Yes, I am anti-illegal immigrant & a nationalist but that doesn't mean I'm white ... Bro!

- Systemic Flaw?: poor argument for cross-country/track & field versus revenue sports.

Lickety Split wrote:

Yes, I am anti-illegal immigrant & a nationalist but that doesn't mean I'm white ... Bro!

It doesn't mean you are, but you are.

P.S. Posts like yours help push the pro-immigration agenda - thank you ;-)

Lickety Split wrote:

i don't have a name on here wrote:

it's not exclusive to lds athletes it can be for any other religion. there are 3 "Ms". mission military and maternity. the ncaa will give a clock extension to anyone involved in those 3 Ms. doesn't matter the religion.

- Thanks for clarifying that ONLY BYU is "cashing-in" on this "M."

Not true actually. NAU has Ryan Raff who will be serving a mission next year and Joe Benson who is on a mission right now. USU has a few out at the moment as well. And those are just the ones that I know of.

Mormon missions aside, did anyone on this thread point out the fact that Linkletter is from Saskatchewan? I saw him listed as an American in a few spots.