Boots. wrote:
Looks like 2,3 and 4 are North Africans
So that brings Yee up to 2nd place
Wow.
Webb did a bunch of pool work. There's a lot to learn from what Webb did, and I say this knowing his career had mixed results.
This podcast (really long interview Magness and Marcus did with Alan Webb) was really interesting. I think it said that his pool work correlated with good performances, someone who has listened to it more recently might remember more.
Chelanga of course is a massive outlier in the NCAA records
For example these were the top ten this year
Day, Tyler SO-2 Northern Arizona 28:04.44 Payton Jordan Invitational May 3, 2018
McMillan, Connor JR-3 BYU 28:09.55 Payton Jordan Invitational
Baxter, Matthew SR-4 Northern Arizona 28:10.05 Payton Jordan Invitational
Kiprop, Vincent JR-3 Alabama 28:19.07 Stanford Invitational Mar 30, 2018
Kigen, Gilbert JR-3 Alabama 28:27.31 Stanford Invitational
Young, Clayton JR-3 BYU 28:27.48 Stanford Invitational
Chelanga, Alfred JR-3 Alabama 28:32.66 Stanford Invitational
Schutte, Noah JR-3 Portland 28:34.51 Stanford Invitational
Green, Jonathan SR-4 Georgetown 28:36.44 Payton Jordan Invitational
Bennie, Colin SR-4 Syracuse 28:37.04 Stanford Invitational
Cuckoo-Land wrote:
Get a grip mate. wrote:
Lol, Andy Vernon and Chris Thompson.
Spoken like a true keyboard warrior wishing to be just half the athlete those two are.... lol...lol...lol....
Exactly, "like", you wouldn't have a clue who I am, what I'm like, what I wish, what I've done, etc, etc, just as I wouldn't you....lol...lol...lol....
wqqqqqqqq wrote:
Webb did a bunch of pool work. There's a lot to learn from what Webb did, and I say this knowing his career had mixed results.
This podcast (really long interview Magness and Marcus did with Alan Webb) was really interesting. I think it said that his pool work correlated with good performances, someone who has listened to it more recently might remember more.
http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2018/02/episode-66-interview-with-alan-webb-how-he-trained-to-run-a-346-mile.html
He should've stick to what worked for him. When he ran his 10000m pb (according to that interview) he only went over a hundred miles once that year. He should have kept swimming and been more moderate with his mileage, weights and speed work.
Here the KM splits for those who asked....
http://www.racetecresults.com/Results.aspx?CId=16665&RId=3136
in awe wrote:
Phenomenal running. A lot of these triathletes are awesome runners in their own right. Many of us runners could learn a lot from how triathletes approach running training. Anyone know how they do it? Traditional running training may in the dark ages compared with the triathletes.
Nope. Start over.
in awe wrote:
fast multiplies wrote:
You max out with running. Do too much and you're injured. On the bike, you can train forever. Frank Shorter took up cycling later in life and said he wishes he did more earlier.
But 27.51 at 20 and not focusing on running? Zatopek barely broke 30 after training his arse off for years. How is that development even possible?
My guess (but I really have no sepcific knowledge on this area) is that the training done by top triathletes is much more effective at targeting endurance development, maybe they use a lot of lactate threshold testing and try to hit that area periodically to consistently bump it up. It could be that a lot of running training done by running specialists is still focused on running hard repetitions which just wear an athlete down when it comes to developing endurance over the long term. Maybe, as you say, you can also do this better with a reduced risk of injury if you are also doing the workouts as cycling or swimming workouts.
Zatopek was probably not optimally trained given what is known today about training. Plus I am not sure that he was able to train full time. I also guess that running on those cinder tracks with those leather spikes was a fair bit slower than the conditions athletes have today.
Nevertheless, the guy's run was awesome. To put into perspective his pace over 10000m is faster than Mo Farah's pace over 5000m at the same age. However, Farah then discovered the power of core-stability exercises and press ups in his mid 20s and he went on to make huge improvements at that level.
I can never understand why people say this kind of thing (that pure-runners training is inferior or that there is some "new" type of training that is practiced now that is superior to what men did in the '70s, 80s, 90s or 2000s). Think for a moment that breathtaking 1500, Mile, 3k, 2M, 5k, and 10k WRs were all set 20 years ago (Bekele has since shaded 2 of them but even that was 13 years ago now). Even the 800m WR was set 6 years ago now.
It seems like if there is any "new training" it was discovered in 1993 with Yobes Ondeiki and Moses Kiptanui and continued with Gebrselassie, Tergat, Komen and El Guerrouj.
The marathon standard has improved to the point that you could be as good as Tergat was and never win a major marathon. Indeed Tergat himself only won 3 marathons. But we all know why this has happened and continues to happen.
So don't be so quick to assume that "training" is the reason when you see an astounding performance. In this case it looks like Talent or what used to be called "natural-ability". And this performance is astounding. It appears he ran 13:37 at 19 and now 27:51 at 20. Ritz ran 13:27 at 19 and 27:38 at 22.
Cffffdd wrote:
Quite a big PR for 29 year old Ringer too (29 second PB). His best before today was 28:05.9.
Seems fishy...
They remeasured the track after your comment. Apparently this track can change size between races.
Meet record is 28 04 by Nyambia of UTEP.
Dhbccg wrote:
Triathlon attracts some studs away from running.
Running attracts some studs away from triathlon....
PrZ wrote:
Beth Potter, who won the women’s race here last year is also a triathlete (took it up in the past couple of years) and I remember reading that she runs like 50 miles a week on top of biking and swimming
Is that supposed to impress us?
age graded wrote:
Chelanga of course is a massive outlier in the NCAA records
I am so sick of you racists calling foreigners liers. Sick of it.
You can still watch it online, go count the laps
So who is the best Kenyan Triathlete? Is there not enough money in the Triathalon for them to switch from distance running?
It's mostly a question of training possibilities (cycling seems lethally dangerous on Kenyan roads with Kenyan automobilists around) and body type. The advantage of many East Africans does not only lie in stemming from a people having lived around 2000m elevation or higher for many generations and their experience with running from early childhood but also in their lean, long-legged anatomy (even with a strange imbalance between wiry calves and powerful glutes and thigh muscles). This will not help with swimming, quite to the contrary, and not much with cycling.
Furthermore, most ironman distance triathletes are comparably slow runners. Either they were slow to begin with or they became slow because they had to focus on ultra-endurance. Many also simply are better cyclists than runners.
This is not to deny that in non-African countries there is quite a bit of young talent going into triathlon instead of running. The German record holder for 3000m for 14 yo boys (8:49 which is very strong if one considers that competitive high school running with a broad base comparable to US or UK hardly exists in Germany) is now, at 19-20 mainly a triathlete, although he still won a few indoor races on track as a junior.
Talk to any semi-serious triathlete and it quickly becomes clear that (1) triathlon is a far richer sport than running, with much more opportunity for mediocre athletes to make a living and (2) the lower ranks are absolutely swamped with drugs. Guys at the top like Yee are subject to the same anti-doping controls as the best runners and cyclists and he is certainly a stud (I have no reason to doubt that this particular guy is clean), but a large part of the culture of the sport is rotten. Given the rewards and the people ultimately funding the sport (predominantly rich, aggressive, middle-aged white men), it’s not too surprising. Running is fucked up too but is too poor for anyone who isn’t world class or from a 3rd-world country to make it a career, even with drugs.
in awe wrote:
Phenomenal running. A lot of these triathletes are awesome runners in their own right. Many of us runners could learn a lot from how triathletes approach running training. Anyone know how they do it? Traditional running training may in the dark ages compared with the triathletes.
Most do the same key workouts (intervals, tempos, etc) a 10k runner would be doing, but then replace the easier runs with biking and swimming. It's not surprising they are only slightly slower (and most of that may simply be genetics).
Jo72 wrote:
It's mostly a question of training possibilities (cycling seems lethally dangerous on Kenyan roads with Kenyan automobilists around) and body type. The advantage of many East Africans does not only lie in stemming from a people having lived around 2000m elevation or higher for many generations and their experience with running from early childhood but also in their lean, long-legged anatomy (even with a strange imbalance between wiry calves and powerful glutes and thigh muscles). This will not help with swimming, quite to the contrary, and not much with cycling.
Furthermore, most ironman distance triathletes are comparably slow runners. Either they were slow to begin with or they became slow because they had to focus on ultra-endurance. Many also simply are better cyclists than runners.
This is not to deny that in non-African countries there is quite a bit of young talent going into triathlon instead of running. The German record holder for 3000m for 14 yo boys (8:49 which is very strong if one considers that competitive high school running with a broad base comparable to US or UK hardly exists in Germany) is now, at 19-20 mainly a triathlete, although he still won a few indoor races on track as a junior.
There were some Kenyan cyclists in the CG here in 2014 and they were rubbish. Maybe in time they'll get there but I agree about wrong build.