Breaking: Shalane and Meb react to Galen Rupp's Chicago Win

It's Egun wrote:

Stop right there Robert.

There is a difference between 'truth' as you describe it, and their 'opinion'.

But they don't speak 'truth' because that is the side you take.

I agree with you. But Shalane didn't say Rupp was dirty.

Tell me what part of the following is an opinion.

“That program, the NOP, has been under investigation for the last two years. So as a fan of my own sport, it’s hard to have full excitement and faith when you don’t know all the facts yet."

She didn't offer opinion. She stated facts and then said because their appears to be a doping investigation she has a hard time getting excited.

You have obviously not visited Florida.

It's Egun wrote:

Yes you hate Rupp.

Just come clean.

Rupp is awkward, very strange, his coach is a pr*ck beyond belief and always has been, so too were Dillinger and Bowerman.

I got dropped by Nike as an athlete after doing yoemans work for their high altitude testing team.

I don't like any of the current Nike distance folks as role models (save Hasay).

That's all been discussed.

I don't allow bullying, will fight forever against it, and I'll tell you directly that I believe your website acts the bully.

It's time to stop that.

Read the underlined part then read the bolded part. What word comes to mind?

"I believe your website acts the bully' - Yep, you've just proved that.

rojo wrote:

Good to see you coming out fighting Rojo, just hope you're not trolling.

Wow, disgusting wrote:

Shameful and repulsive remarks from Flanagan. I did not think Meb was such a tool either. Half the world's top athletes are on the WADA suspicious list,

Well actually no, because the only restricting tool is the ABP for Hemoglobin which affects distance runners. They can't detect jack for explosive events. Hence none of them are on any suspicious lists (hence the WR for 100m, 200m, 400m, 800m, w100mH, 110mH, 4 x 100m have all been broken over the last 10 years).

Man Overboard wrote:

“That program, the NOP, has been under investigation for the last two years. So as a fan of my own sport, it’s hard to have full excitement and faith when you don’t know all the facts yet."

Well, to be fair the "investigation" has dragged on much longer than two years. It was active for a couple of years before it was even publicized by Propublica. The only reason that it is officially still open and ongoing is that USADA never closes the book.

There is still a fishing expedition going on to be sure, but the lack of any formal charges or suspensions after at least 4 years of "investigation" speaks volumes.

It took over 10 years to bring down Lance and that mainly happened as usada was able to piggyback on the criminal investigation into fraud regarding his charity. Usada relies on voluntary cooperation whereas the feds can compel testimony and discovery. So what volume is being spoken as I'm not clear on that.

Exactly (but Rupp is still suspicious).

Stunt Double wrote:

Nice that you can pat yourselves on the back, but you avoided my main point which is that Regina had a self-righteous, cynical attitude, and a suspicious mid-30s surge in performance, neither of which apply to Jordan.

Attitude determines doping?

Not that I should be defending Regina but looking at the stats, she ran 4:00 at age 24. So she was WAY better than Jordan Hasay ever was a 24.

Now Regina, who I don't think was much special in college, didn't return to that form again until 11 years later. So that's the mid-30s stuff you are talking about.

I highly doubt Shalane is jealous of Jordan and her marathon time. As a follower of her on social media, she is usually very congratulatory of other US runners, even when their times have been better than hers. And it's not just her, but literally a large majority of the us distance running community that haven't congratulated Hasay or Rupp, which does speak volumes to me. And while sure they may be clean, I understand her frustration with all the dopers that have been caught now from years earlier and missing out on medals because of it. When a program is under investigation, red flags obviously go up.

The endless "under investigation" status is growing tiresome. USADA needs to shit or get off the pot instead of leaving an endless cloud over the program.

Stunt Double wrote:

Nice that you can pat yourselves on the back, but you avoided my main point which is that Regina had a self-righteous, cynical attitude, and a suspicious mid-30s surge in performance, neither of which apply to Jordan.

Sounds eerily similar to another nop star I know.

Jordan is Clearly better than Shalane based on times.

rojo wrote:

Its Egun wrote:

The LRC owners hate rupp.

Why?

It creates clicks to hate Rupp.

Who clicks?

HS wannabes and old wealthy bored white guys.

There are about 600-1000 LRC regulars.

It's 65% kids, and 30% old white guys.

The remainder are stumblers who find the site and leave.

The reprehensible work is done by Gault, he has replaced George in this role.

Gault has talent but low self esteem and the owners pay him so he perpetuates this vitriol or at the very least the constant drumbeat.

We hate Rupp? I gave him a splash page within 5 minutes of him crossing the line. What we hate is journalists who don't do their job.

Gault didn't make up the following "testosterone medication" picture from Rupp's HS days.

https://assets.propublica.org/legacy/images/ngen/gypsy_image_630/20150603-bbc-nike-lab-doc-3-630.jpg

I thought I had seen all of the Rupp-Salazar allegations, but did I just see "prednisone and testosterone?" Wow, just wow. From a young age, f__k me.🙈

have to disagree wrote:

rojo, i have to respectfully disagree and say that it's entirely inaccurate for you to claim that rupp has "had massive improvements that few people in the world have" and then to use that as some kind of sign that he is doping. if anything, his progression is among the most gradual and consistent I can think of. he came into the elite scene already having shown immense talent. and his successes as a pro only seem "surprising" because so few others are able to live up to the initial hype/talent.

.

You want me to make the argument that Rupp is clean? I can easily make it. It all comes from comparing him to my brother who I KNOW was clean about as well as anyone can know it adn who went from a college scrub tlk 28:07 and 4th in the USA.

1) I always said that Alberto Salazar reminded me of John Kellogg with a billion dollars behind him.

2) Rupp looks very young and I think young people like my Rupp/my brother keep improving later in life.

3) My brother ran 28 flat and wasn't the most talented guy in our grade in a HS of 75 people. Rupp is talented. I coached a guy on Rupp's soccer team at Cornell. This kid ran 9:20 as a junior in HS and said Rupp was WAY better. So can I see a white guy running a minute faster than my brother? Absolutely.

4) Rupp doesn't get hurt. What did Weldon in was injuries. He had a stress fracture for like 2 years and had no idea as we didn't have health insurance for an MRI, etc. Rupp has all the docs he needs plus underwater treadtmills and ant-gravityl..

5) Rupp is SUPER focused . That boring personality plays into him doing the work needed day in and day out.

I remember reading in like 2008 an article - that I can't find but I imagine it was in RW- where Rupp said he realized he needed to raise his mileage and start doing long tempos. He wasn't doing like 120 miles a week and he said his favorite workouts were like mile repeats but he hated tempos.

I vividly remember reading that and thinking to myself, "MY god, if Rupp is running 27:36 (which is what he ran in Bejing and which to me struck me as incredible as if it had been like Stanford conditions he'd have the AR - but no one paid attention as he was WELL beaten) and not running high mileage and not even doing the BASICS of distance training (long tempos), then he could be a monster."

(But I also thought it was bizarre that a so-called genius like Salazar wouldn't have him doing tempos but maybe it was a super long term plan).

If you want to know what strikes me as most odd abou this progression, it's the mile. While he ran 4:01 in HS in 2004, he coudln't break 4:00 until 2009. 4 years after that he was running 3:50.

Now my bro improved a ton late in life but my bro also didn't run year round until senior year of HS.

Flanagan and Meb are both at the same stage in their carerrs - washed up. At least Meb knows he's done. No one cares about what races you're running anymore, Shalane.

Even if you exclude the dopers in Boston 2014, Shalane was still 5th in that race about 2 minutes off of the 2:19:59 by Deba. That’s not close to winning. And when it comes to Berlin, Shalane had individual male pacers through 41k

(http://leblogdurob.com/blog-115-tales-of-rabbithood/) and couldn’t run as fast as Jordan did without any official rabbits. And even though Shalane was closer time wise to the winner in that race, it was not tactical by any means. Not to mention Dibaba is a far superior athlete to Tsegaye. As I said I’m a big Shalane fan, but until Jordan has a poor marathon performance, her record at

26.2 is still superior to Shalane’s.

rojo wrote:

Stunt Double wrote:

She certainly is no Regina Jacobs.

Thank you for brining that name into discussion as many people are young and don't know who she is.

We were asking the same difficult questions when Regina was the darling of US distance circles. RW was fawning over her. Late 30s American giant.

Arguably the most famous article in LetsRun's first 5 years was this one. I asked the questions no one would ask then and Jon is asking them now.

http://www.letsrun.com/2002/rojospeaks013002.htm

Hey, Rojo back 19-20 years ago my father, (who then had a moderate construction business), was building an apartment building for an ex-international diplomat (a "Dame") that over looked an inner city park. One of the young apprentice lads tapped Dad on the shoulder and said "check out how fast that chick is running (down in the nearby park)." My father turned to look and said she had the best form of any woman runner he had seen (and he could do 32min for 10k in his 40s). Then 3/4 nights later we were watching the local track meet and he pointed out the female runner. It was Regina Jacobs! later she ran under 4mins for 1500m indoors, and was busted for drugs, not surprising.

Jordan Hasay has been under investigation a grand total of ZERO times.

How PATHETIC that Shalane has to be soooo jealous. I have noticed this about her in the past. Low character personality and low esteem, unless she is being praised.

Joan Benoit Samuelson and Paula Radcliffe clearly support Jordan.

Shalane is soo jealous that she could not even wait 2 weeks to open her sorry mouth.

I like Shalane and Meb. They have been great competitors and great to watch. I think they could be clearer and Gault could ask some clarifying questions.

It sounds like they are saying we should be skeptical of, and not congratulate, anyone who:

- Runs or ran for NOP - those athletes, even their friends, who ran for NOP chose to associate with Salazar for years, right? And the investigation is broad and never closes. So should we have questions about everyone? Why / why not?

- Was / is a patient of Dr. Brown? They may have non-NOP friends who went to that Dr. right? Friends coached by their own coaches perhaps?

- Improved their times a lot ( that may just be a Rojo standard in this thread)

Doesn’t this net a lot of people? Can we get a list of people who saw Dr Brown? How about people who improved their mile times at 25 or older? Improved their 5000 times by 15 seconds in a year in their mid 20s. Improved their PR substantially to win a medal at the WC?