My 32 year old brother is about to invest 2 years and 24k into a CompSci degree - how do I stop him?

Of course I'm repeating those things as they keep coming up in my research!Are you going to tell me they aren't prevalent in the industry?? I think perhaps you're the naive one!They are by far my biggest fears and should be my brothers as well.

rwara wrote:

Lol no you didn't, other wise you'd have displayed at least some level of knowledge about the industry by now instead of just repeating the words "outsourcing" "ageism" and "code mill" over and over again and basing your entire opinion on some posts you read on lrc.

At this point its obvious you are trolling or just a really naive individual. Either way there is not much point in trying to convince you of anything. Good luck with whatever it is you are trying to accomplish here.

brotherhood wrote:

Of course I'm repeating those things as they keep coming up in my research!

Are you going to tell me they aren't prevalent in the industry?? I think perhaps you're the naive one!

They are by far my biggest fears and should be my brothers as well.

Your overuse of naive sounding comments with exclamations and needy-ness to respond to everyone who posts is giving it away. You had a discussion going for a while but you gotta learn to stay composed if you want to achieve the coveted 10/10. I'll give you a solid 6 for garnering this much response though. Would be a 7 or 8 but it wasn't exactly a funny troll topic and no one got riled up either. Still better than most.

OP you're an idiot. 24k is terrific value for any in-demand degree such as comp sci. Some people borrow 100k over 4 years for that. The risk is very low for a well paying career. He will pay that debt off within a year of his first job.

There are people who borrow 150-300k for medical, law, dental, pharmacy, optometry, etc school who don't finish or never get a job. If they fail they are royally screwed. If your brother doesn't finish, he can still pay off 12k or 24k easily.

Get an ADHD diagnosis.

If you think age 45 is where he breaks even and catches up in earnings then it would be a very smart move to do this now.

That would give him 20 years of higher earnings up to age 65.

If he dies by age 50 then it's a bad move.

If it's such good value then why doesn't every decently smart retail, hospitality and construction worker take it? For all the reasons I've read in other posts. I find it real interesting that whenever a post is started along the lines of "I want to become a computer programmer!" The general consensus is: "Don't do it! It is boring, over supply, outsourcing, you'll be editing mundane code all your life and be miserable"However when the opposite is posted "I want to dissuade my brother from becoming a computer programmer" the general consensus is "You're stupid! It's a great career choice! He can do it! etc."Interesting....I get the feeling you people just want to shoot down whatever the OP says....

24k is nothing wrote:

OP you're an idiot. 24k is terrific value for any in-demand degree such as comp sci. Some people borrow 100k over 4 years for that. The risk is very low for a well paying career. He will pay that debt off within a year of his first job.

There are people who borrow 150-300k for medical, law, dental, pharmacy, optometry, etc school who don't finish or never get a job. If they fail they are royally screwed. If your brother doesn't finish, he can still pay off 12k or 24k easily.

It's a good deal for those that desire to do it.

Not so good for those not interested.

24k is nothing wrote:

OP you're an idiot. 24k is terrific value for any in-demand degree such as comp sci. Some people borrow 100k over 4 years for that. The risk is very low for a well paying career. He will pay that debt off within a year of his first job.

There are people who borrow 150-300k for medical, law, dental, pharmacy, optometry, etc school who don't finish or never get a job. If they fail they are royally screwed. If your brother doesn't finish, he can still pay off 12k or 24k easily.

I would agree with this also. My friend just graduated (in 2015) from a BIG 10 Uni with a degree in ME, and he has student loans of $105,000. He worked all the way through and had two internship periods (we call them co-ops) with Toyota both times, paying $18 per hour and generous overtime.

Now, he did get a job with American Axle & Manufacturing (in Detroit), so he will be able to pay this off. But that is MORE THAN $1000 a month for a solid 10 years.

I think the biggest issue facing this fake brother is whether he has the aptitude for this kind of job (i.e. how he can hack it in cube-land) not whether being a developer is a good job, or whether he will make money, or more money than a bartender, etc.

brotherhood wrote:

Of course it doesn't make him an artifact but why the heck coding? It's literally the worst path he could choose.

So many worse paths to take. Here's one:

get a bachelor's degree (and a master's) in English Literature or Art History.

95% of undergrads fail lower division Engineering-Physics so I'g go to a JC night school first to see. Otherwise take the simpler LifeSciences-Physics and get a Genetics Degree.

You say he's next to broke, but also that he's making "decent coin". Which is it?

Are you a fan of Better Call Saul? There is a character on the show that you would very much relate to - Chuck McGill, who resents his brother so much that he does everything in his power to prevent him from succeeding.

Your brother has not failed, and the desire for self improvement can be a surprisingly strong motivator. $12k/yr for two years sounds like a worthwhile gamble for the potential of a lifetime of greater earnings. Hell, $24k is what people routinely blow on a new car every few years. It's not an insurmountable debt.

For me, the first few years were a little tedious as it would be for any entry level position. That quickly changed when I jumped into my first senior level position. In the years since I've helped launch a bank, worked with cutting edge robotics and was a 100k mile traveler for six years. Those miles and hotel points paid for quite a few vacations, and my life has been richer because of those tedious years.

Wouldn't you like to see your brother do well, too?

mh wrote:

You say he's next to broke, but also that he's making "decent coin". Which is it?

Bartenders make most of their money in cash tips which we all know go unreported, so he's probably really making $100k if he's telling a douche like you $60, and having more fun doing that than staring at a screen in a cube surrounded by nerds talking about video games all day. He's probably shagging a few drunken sluts on the side, too. I'm envious.

See Tom Cruise in " Cocktail" for a dose of reality, dikweed.

OP, What's your line of work? I'm a sales manager and you would be the worst type of employee. I look for problem solvers and steer clear of complainers. You fall squarely in the second category.

Every logical post that someone made you whined about something else. I think you need to work on your positivity.

Why do I get the feeling that some part of you wants him to quit in a year so you can say "I told you so!"?

Read every single post on here about some wanting to make a career change to coding/ computer programming - they get totally shot down for a number of reasons!

Why are people saying my brother is making a great decision in this thread? It's because people just want to shoot down the OP.

In fact there is a thread going right now "qualified for a coding bootcamp" in which people who have said my brother is making a great decision (in this thread) turn around and say things like coding is miserable, competitive and low paying and saturated (in the other thread)

You guys just want to bash OP

I employ programmers and have mentored and managed probably close to 50 people in the last 20 years, from high school kids on work experience to people with 10-15 years experience.

You either like programming or you don't. An expensive degree is the wrong way to find out. The right way to find out is to get involved in some open source projects and start building stuff, or helping others debug code, write tests and write docs. Go to coding meetups - most weeks in every major city. Go to conferences. Do courses on Codecademy. If he can build something useful or even help others do so, in some spare time over six months or so, or he finds a niche in the ecosystem, and his interest is still growing, maybe it's time to go for a degree.

If he wants to learn front end, avoid Wordpress and get into Javascript and static sites right away. Back end, Python. Either way, learn about version control and test suites.

Just an update.

My brother has somewhat taken my advice on jumping right in to full time school and is planning a combination of self learning (as the above poster suggested) along with a few night classes.

I think what I finally got through his head is that;

1) At best he'll wind up as some low paying job as a code monkey until he is burnt out.

2) He's competing in an industry where it is a lot easier to hire foreign workers and outsource so he's essentially competing against younger people from India, China etc. who are hungry for these jobs.

3) He barely knows anything about web development and the market is so saturated with educated web developers it would be very tough for him to find a job even with a degree.

At least now he won't blow 12k and potentially only pay for 1 class before he realizes how hard it is, how competitive it is and how over saturated the market is.

Congratulations! You've broken your brother's spirit. You don't need to worry about him making you feel inferior about your own life choices anymore. Threat neutralized.

brotherhood wrote:

I find it real interesting that whenever a post is started along the lines of "I want to become a computer programmer!" The general consensus is: "Don't do it! It is boring, over supply, outsourcing, you'll be editing mundane code all your life and be miserable"

You seem to have lost the other half of the threads. It most certainly can be a boring job to the wrong personality. That's different than what you posted.