Hilarious thread.
Chacne Centro Sauce is clean? Rosa Kiprop? LOL!!!!!!
Honestly, picking the clean WR holder for men is tough. I have no idea. Muir is clearly the fastest legit woman though.
Hilarious thread.
Chacne Centro Sauce is clean? Rosa Kiprop? LOL!!!!!!
Honestly, picking the clean WR holder for men is tough. I have no idea. Muir is clearly the fastest legit woman though.
Kip Keino 3:34 at altitude and Oly Gold in process. Also 1500 silver (72), 5000 silver (68) and steeple gold (72).
/thread
I can't back it up with any hard evidence - it's just my opinion.
As to possible drugs, Pemoline, cocaine, amphetamines, and anabolic steroids in low dose for recovery (much like MLB pitchers use). There were many options. Read up on the Tour de France, which I already alluded to; you'll find systematic doping (mostly cocaine) even in the pre-war era.
For best overall likely-non-doped, I still go with Keino (as a few others have suggested as well).
T&F Nut wrote:
Jim Ryun............not even close. Ran 3:51 mile on a dirt track without any competition.
And without any testing whatsoever, at a time when steroids weren't even on the banned list. Not banned until 68.
Not saying he was doping. There is no evidence to suggest Ryun was, but it makes me laugh when many posters on here accuse guys from the early 80's, when drug testing was in place and when lots of things were banned, with similarly little or no evidence, but give Ryun and the guys pre-dating him a free pass for any wrong-doing or cheating.
At end of day, those running in 1968 and in 1980 got into the sport when it was still amateur and there was little money to be made, at least up front. There was no real monetary incentive and big bucks to be made until 1982/83. Money is the main reason why people would dope, at least outside the Communist countries where sporting glory was synonymous with national/political superiority, and with the influx of money then the more likely people were to risk doping.
Welsh Wizard wrote:
T&F Nut wrote:Jim Ryun............not even close. Ran 3:51 mile on a dirt track without any competition.
And without any testing whatsoever, at a time when steroids weren't even on the banned list. Not banned until 68.
Not saying he was doping. There is no evidence to suggest Ryun was, but it makes me laugh when many posters on here accuse guys from the early 80's, when drug testing was in place and when lots of things were banned, with similarly little or no evidence, but give Ryun and the guys pre-dating him a free pass for any wrong-doing or cheating.
At end of day, those running in 1968 and in 1980 got into the sport when it was still amateur and there was little money to be made, at least up front. There was no real monetary incentive and big bucks to be made until 1982/83. Money is the main reason why people would dope, at least outside the Communist countries where sporting glory was synonymous with national/political superiority, and with the influx of money then the more likely people were to risk doping.
Really? No one wants to be the BEST in the world, it's all just about that sweet cold hard $$ baby?
Alan Webb's Triceps wrote:
Dennis T Reynolds wrote:Thank you for including someone of color. It's funny how in a thread about people who didn't dope they only include white people.
+1
It's amazing how pro white this forum can be. Like being non-white is already a strike against you.
#coloredrunnersmatter
LR is the most conservative forum I've ever been to. I wonder, are distance runners in general conservative?
$$ made them do it wrote:
Welsh Wizard wrote:And without any testing whatsoever, at a time when steroids weren't even on the banned list. Not banned until 68.
Not saying he was doping. There is no evidence to suggest Ryun was, but it makes me laugh when many posters on here accuse guys from the early 80's, when drug testing was in place and when lots of things were banned, with similarly little or no evidence, but give Ryun and the guys pre-dating him a free pass for any wrong-doing or cheating.
At end of day, those running in 1968 and in 1980 got into the sport when it was still amateur and there was little money to be made, at least up front. There was no real monetary incentive and big bucks to be made until 1982/83. Money is the main reason why people would dope, at least outside the Communist countries where sporting glory was synonymous with national/political superiority, and with the influx of money then the more likely people were to risk doping.
Really? No one wants to be the BEST in the world, it's all just about that sweet cold hard $$ baby?
Never said that. Of course people want to be the best. But that would have been the same incentive whether competing in Ryun's time or 10 - 15 years later. The only difference is that in 1967 there was no testing. Period! At any competitions or for WR submission. Also, steroids were still legal.
Come 1980, drug testing was taking place for WR performances and major Champs, and steroids were on the banned list. By 1982 several countries in Europe were also carrying out random out of competition testing.
I was just highlighting the double standards and hypocrisy shown by some on these boards when comparing Ryun and the next generations that followed. In reality it would have been easier to have doped and get away with it in 1967 compared to 1980.
But also, the introduction of official (and big) prize money and the Grand Prix in 85, would most definitely have been accompanied by wider drug use.
Well said! And I`m 100% shore! Why? The story is that I mailed him and asked if he would like to test my DANCAN-system and my coaching.He first wanted to test it and I explained the system to him and talked about he would be using maxVO2-pace workouts. He then said "No way! Thats doping! MaxVO2 is doping and forbidden! " ......he thought I proposed he should be using a supplement called MaxVO2 that was said being doping.... :)
Ovett was the best - clean or dirty
not humble opinion wrote:
I can't back it up with any hard evidence - it's just my opinion.
As to possible drugs, Pemoline, cocaine, amphetamines, and anabolic steroids in low dose for recovery (much like MLB pitchers use). There were many options. Read up on the Tour de France, which I already alluded to; you'll find systematic doping (mostly cocaine) even in the pre-war era.
Professional cycling in Europe and amateur distance running in the UK are and were scenes with totally different norms, incentives, opportunities, finances.
It's possible that Seb Coe doped, though I've never seen any evidence, however tenuous, for this. (The toxoplasmosis/blood doping association is a nonsense.) I can say with certainty that there was no systematic or widespread doping though. The idea of Tipton Harriers furtively doing speed in Sutton Park during the road relays is bloody daft.
not humble opinion wrote:
I can't back it up with any hard evidence - it's just my opinion.
As to possible drugs, Pemoline, cocaine, amphetamines, and anabolic steroids in low dose for recovery (much like MLB pitchers use). There were many options. Read up on the Tour de France, which I already alluded to; you'll find systematic doping (mostly cocaine) even in the pre-war era.
For best overall likely-non-doped, I still go with Keino (as a few others have suggested as well).
I just don't think the drugs available back the were that effective on men. Look at the East German women compared to the men
Pheidippides. He could knock out 5 x 18 miles in a heartbeat so one mile was nothing.
jeff tallon wrote:
i think there are very few competing clean these days.in the 70s there were some,like filbert bayi,but it went way downhill from there.
^This. No one competed clean in the 80s, until the drug tests became more regular, and even then, all federations would cover for their own athletes. Remember 84?
Then we got EPO in the 90s, and Diack/Saugy/Coe thereafter.
Not those guys wrote:
Oh, but the better answer for me would be none of them.
I'm not confident that any of them aren't doping.
My level of confidence that everyone else is clean is also zero. Testing does not catch everyone, some people cheat, and some people are dishonest.
I only truly know about myself.
I know that I never doped. I do not know about anyone else. Thus, I can only say with absolute 100% confidence that I (with my modest time) was the best.
German Fernandez the goat
Hicham El Guerrouj
Link wrote:
Filbert Bayi
I'm jaded. I was going to say Bayi or Walker. Of the more recent guys, I like to think Webb was clean... Are we doing women too? Zola Budd.
GoldenMiles wrote:
[quote]Alan Webb's Triceps wrote:
I wonder, are distance runners in general conservative?
Not most of the ones I've met.
hope most are clean wrote:
Willis ran 4.01 for a mile at 17 off 30 miles a week . was definitely not a man child so it stands to reason with dedication and years of training like a man he'd go on to be one of the best in the world . also note that in NZ they only get to run about 1 mile race a year and the domestic scene has very few chances to run a fast 1500. Not sure if anybody broke 3.50 this year on N.Z soil for the 1500 ( yes that includes seniors/open) . back then there was definitely no drugs talked of or offered to nationally ranked schoolboys . I'd bet my house on him being clean. He was just born to run.
Why on earth would Antipodeans only have ONE mile race a year? By the time they get good they can easily run two track seasons a year? Unlike many nations in Europe they were a British colony, and therefore used Imperial measure and "the mile". Just don't see what you are getting at here?
Also, if they aren't running under 3:50m that is fine, but why do you think they are disadvantaged to such an extent? In America, we have schoolboys running 3:58-4:02 every year. It isn't the fast conditions that allow them to do that.
I want to be clear: I am NOT casting aspersions on Nick Willis or any other NZer, but your logic seems flawed.
Also, there is no inherent moral reason that a kiwi could not be using (any more or less than a European, American, Canadian, or Aussie). I don't want to give too much away but one of your runners who was at WR-level confessed to doping (just to his mates) a long time ago. Many of those from Down Under have been caught for PEDs in cycling (not any more than any other nation, but not less).
not humble opinion wrote:
I can't back it up with any hard evidence - it's just my opinion.
As to possible drugs, Pemoline, cocaine, amphetamines, and anabolic steroids in low dose for recovery (much like MLB pitchers use). There were many options. Read up on the Tour de France, which I already alluded to; you'll find systematic doping (mostly cocaine) even in the pre-war era.
For best overall likely-non-doped, I still go with Keino (as a few others have suggested as well).
You are right mostly, but it was not cocaine (mostly or otherwise), it was amphetamines.