Studly: Meet the world class 800 runner who has twice been 4th at Worlds and runs 105-110 mpw

dsrunner wrote:

a) "Aerobic fitness" is not synonymous with closing speed in an 800.

b) The world record for 800 on 25 miles / week training is better than the world record for 800 on 100 miles / week training.

c) Som split 45+ (sprint background, not orienteering)

d) You don't even need a 100 miles/week to win Boston.

e) Lydiard = idiocy

Total garbage, name a winner of b-grade Boston who doesn't don't 120 per week.

Lydiard is a genius, he took a motley crew with no talent and made them champions. Salazar and Renato etc get talented athletes who are almost there and give them a bit of sharpening.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Total garbage, name a winner of b-grade Boston who doesn't don't 120 per week.

Several of the recent top Africans are only doing 70-80mpw.

Iviv wrote:

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Total garbage, name a winner of b-grade Boston who doesn't don't 120 per week.

Several of the recent top Africans are only doing 70-80mpw.

Who?

HRE wrote:

Giib wrote:

The point of my original comment is very clear. I said that maybe Lydiard was incorrect. Did you really not understand that? I don't think there is a more direct way to state it.

Your math and probability is flawed. The people who were there are not likely to be more correct than some guy on a message board 56 years later. You have made up statistics out of thin air. Do you even know what Lydiard was basing his statement on?

Yes. I know he analyzed the people in the race. Have you?

Exactly how did he analyze them? No, I did not analyze them and I have no idea why you think that is relevant to my point.

Your point is mostly pointless. You make a comment with no evidence and think it means something.

Lydiard put a lot of significance in how fast someone could run a 220. That's why he'd have commented on Snell's 220 time, not his 100 or 440 time, in comparison to everyone else's in the race. Those times would affect the sort of race strategies his runners would employ so he'd make a point of finding out what the 220 times of people in the race were. How did he analyze them? In the obvious way, by finding out what they were.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

dsrunner wrote:

a) "Aerobic fitness" is not synonymous with closing speed in an 800.

b) The world record for 800 on 25 miles / week training is better than the world record for 800 on 100 miles / week training.

c) Som split 45+ (sprint background, not orienteering)

d) You don't even need a 100 miles/week to win Boston.

e) Lydiard = idiocy

Total garbage, name a winner of b-grade Boston who doesn't don't 120 per week.

Lydiard is a genius, he took a motley crew with no talent and made them champions. Salazar and Renato etc get talented athletes who are almost there and give them a bit of sharpening.

All from a few suburbs around Auckland. No cherry picking. No epo, igf, or steroids. Bad Wiggins probably thinks they were all on copious amounts of speed.

I wouldn't have said Snell had 'no talent', but he wasn't especially fast at high school. Played tennis very well.

HRE wrote:

Iviv wrote:

Several of the recent top Africans are only doing 70-80mpw.

Who?

I think I heard that from Renato Canova. Search his posts on here. It may have been those 2 ru ers that really started the new era of African marathoning a few years ago. I think the thread was called "Sammy Kitwara and the analysis of something new in training" or something like that. Renato Canova created that thread right after 2 relatively unknowns came out and ran 2:04.

HRE wrote:

Your point is mostly pointless. You make a comment with no evidence and think it means something.

Lydiard put a lot of significance in how fast someone could run a 220. That's why he'd have commented on Snell's 220 time, not his 100 or 440 time, in comparison to everyone else's in the race. Those times would affect the sort of race strategies his runners would employ so he'd make a point of finding out what the 220 times of people in the race were. How did he analyze them? In the obvious way, by finding out what they were.

If I made a point, then it is by defintion not pointless. I think maybe you don't understand what pointless means. My point has a meaning so it does indeed mean something. I also have evidence. The evidence is that Snell outran his competitors. Did you forget what we are talking about?

"Finding out what they were" does not explain how Lydiard analyzed their 200m times. Exactly how did he find out what they were? What was he basing it on? Also, how did he find out what Snell's 200m time was?

Iviv wrote:

HRE wrote:

Who?

I think I heard that from Renato Canova. Search his posts on here. It may have been those 2 ru ers that really started the new era of African marathoning a few years ago. I think the thread was called "Sammy Kitwara and the analysis of something new in training" or something like that. Renato Canova created that thread right after 2 relatively unknowns came out and ran 2:04.

The two runners you are talking about supposedly had dropped their mileage back to around 80 after previously running much more. They were being coached by someone who has had several runners test positive and as far as I am aware neither had ever had an out of comp dope test prior to their hit and run raid on that particular race.

HRE did Snell run his 800/ 880 wr on a grass track?

Lydiard is God wrote:

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Total garbage, name a winner of b-grade Boston who doesn't don't 120 per week.

Lydiard is a genius, he took a motley crew with no talent and made them champions. Salazar and Renato etc get talented athletes who are almost there and give them a bit of sharpening.

All from a few suburbs around Auckland. No cherry picking. No epo, igf, or steroids. Bad Wiggins probably thinks they were all on copious amounts of speed.

I wouldn't have said Snell had 'no talent', but he wasn't especially fast at high school. Played tennis very well.

Yeah, I am completely wrong about Snell, he was an excellent sportsman, but he was awkward and gangly initially, technically all over the place and Lydiard did take him on as a novice. But everything else correct, Halberg was a cripple, Magee didn't ooze "great athlete" on first sight and Bailie was either a butcher or a Publican chasing a customer who owed him money down the street. John Davies was more Clark Kent than Superman. They all started as hobby joggers.

Bad Wiggins reckons that top athletes at this time were on amphetamines, he reckons that Herb Elliot was the first runner on roids but I very much doubt that.

How could anyone possibly conclude that Herb Elliott was on steroids?

jcruz wrote:

How could anyone possibly conclude that Herb Elliott was on steroids?

Sand dunes were Elliot's steroids.

Mistaken identity? wrote:

Lewandowski has a 10.6 FAT on his IAAF profile from 11 years ago?

I recall discussion on another message board a few years ago in which it was stated that Lewandowski's 100m time on his IAAF profile is an error and has been incorrectly attributed to him.

Your evidence that Snell outran his competitors does not prove that Lydiard and Snell were wrong in saying that Snell had the slowest 220 time of any runner in the field. How does anyone find out what anyone's best times are? You look at race results, you ask them or their coaches. It's a pretty common practice.

So putting this another way, your point is meaningless. Anyone can say "so and so might have been wrong" and if that's all they say, if they don't give evidence supporting their point, it's meaningless. If you have real evidence that Lydiard was wrong in his comment you'd make the point by explaining what you've based your comment on. The closest you've come to that, after multiple posts, seems to be that Snell outran them. How does that support the idea that Lydiard was wrong in his comment about 220 times?

I'm pretty sure the record was run on grass but not positive. If I think of it later, I'll dig through some books and see if I can find out for sure.

Parts of Snell's world record 800m/880y:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t4g9B5vBCE

Track was grass by all accounts. Hard to tell from video.

I found this about Lewandowski's training:

(My original post with the link got rejected by LetsRun. To get to the link, put in "Tomasz Lewandowski training" into Google. On the 4th page of results, click on the 3rd result which is from the site aaporto.com)

Key workouts are on 8th slide. Any Polish speakers who can translate abbreviations in first column on 8th slide? Stuff like "Owb 2" and "ZB" etc., what do they mean?

Lewandowski and Kszczot training: (cool bounding by Kszczot at around 1:24, main track workout starts around 6:12, get the damn bike off the track, oh, wait, that's the coach!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2WSHvzYixM

Can use this link:

https://aaporto.com/index.php/downloads/category/18-doc-tecnicos-2012-2013?download=1188:20121020-acao-de-reciclagem-de-meio-fundo-lisboa

Slow fat master -

Incredible thanks for that link.

Iviv wrote:

HRE wrote:

Who?

I think I heard that from Renato Canova. Search his posts on here. It may have been those 2 ru ers that really started the new era of African marathoning a few years ago. I think the thread was called "Sammy Kitwara and the analysis of something new in training" or something like that. Renato Canova created that thread right after 2 relatively unknowns came out and ran 2:04.

I believe this is the thread.