100m times for ELITE MID to LONG DISTANCE

BullSlacker wrote:

*No, put Farah in blocks and he probably runs 12.9. Like he did. 0.4 seconds is a lot to just chop off in the 100m like it doesn't matter.

He was in the middle of a physical competition at the time. It was out of season too. It's pretty certain he'd have been quicker had he done this mid summer as part of his speed work in training. I agree with much of what you posted on here, and I think too many over estimate mid and long distance runners 100speed, but I don't think that run was Farah at his best. I don't think he ever goes sub 12 from blocks, but with a bit of practice with them, I see something between 12 low and 12.5

Nico Motchebon, German 800m Runner

100 m: 11,11 s, 14. September 1993 in Berlin

400 m: 46,71 s, 31. Mai 1997 in Athen

800 m: 1:43,91 min, 31. Juli 1996 in Atlanta

Runningart2004 wrote:

Obsessedwith11 wrote:

Some posters on this board have an obsession with sub-11 times, putting it up as some ungodly display of unobtainable speed. The pale truth remains: sub-11 is massively commonplace, in high school and above. I sense the reason some replies here are so incredulous of middle distance pros being capable of it is that this forum is skewed towards the longer distances. Most training replies have to do with upping easy base mileage, with strides and low rest/active rest intervals substituting as some notion of speed work. The recent 5*60m thread is a rarity, and even then some replies urged short rest. Outside of the LRC long distance bubble, sub-11 is quite common.

I know of many High Schools who have never had a sub 11. Not that's common.

Alan

While your anecdotal experience is appreciated, any look at aggregate high school data will reveal a massive amount of distinct high schoolers breaking this "magical" barrier repeatwldy every year.

TrackBot! PRs Regina Jacobs

PRs for Regina Jacobs:

100 m (Outdoor): 11.58 on 19 May 1997

400 m (Outdoor): 56.79 on 8 May 1999

800 m (Outdoor): 1:58.08 on 24 Jun 2000

800 m (Indoor): 2:01.71 on 29 Jan 2000

1000 m (Outdoor): 2:31.80    AR on 3 Jul 1999

1000 m (Indoor): 2:35.29 on 6 Feb 2000

1500 m (Outdoor): 4:00.35 on 29 Aug 1999

1500 m (Indoor): 3:59.98    AR on 1 Feb 2003

One Mile (Outdoor): 4:20.93 on 20 Jul 1998

One Mile (Indoor): 4:21.79 on 8 Jan 2000

2000 m (Outdoor): 5:38.42 on 8 Jul 1994

3000 m (Outdoor): 8:39.56 on 25 Jul 1998

3000 m (Indoor): 8:39.14 on 7 Mar 1999

Two Miles (Outdoor): 9:11.97 mx on 12 Aug 1999

Two Miles (Indoor): 9:23.38    AR on 27 Jan 2002

5000 m (Outdoor): 14:45.35 on 17 Jul 2000

100 m hurdles (Outdoor): 13.48A   0.0 on 7 Mar 1997

(Indoor): 14:44.11    WR on 23 Feb 2002

I am a bot. Info: habs.sdf.org/trackbot

Obsessedwith11 wrote:

Runningart2004 wrote:

I know of many High Schools who have never had a sub 11. Not that's common.

Alan

While your anecdotal experience is appreciated, any look at aggregate high school data will reveal a massive amount of distinct high schoolers breaking this "magical" barrier repeatwldy every year.

Only 22 in the state of Indiana last year. Again, not that common.

Alan

1843 high schoolers broke 11.00 for 2016. That's 36 per state. That's not that many.

Alan

Runningart2004 wrote:

1843 high schoolers broke 11.00 for 2016. That's 36 per state. That's not that many.

Alan

Obviously semantics at this point, but to me that makes it a relatively common occurrence in my mind. 100m is frequently/routinely broke in HS competition. I'd say it's common for HS athlete to run 9:0x for 2M and 4:0x the mile. Sub 9, and certainly sub 4, move into the territory of what I would view as uncommon.

11.0 100m is still a very strong time though, on par with 1:54/4:15/9:10/14:40 if you go by IAAF's tables.

We've been through this before. The 100m and 100 hurdle times are from a different athlete by the same name as the other times listed here.

LM wrote:

Runningart2004 wrote:

1843 high schoolers broke 11.00 for 2016. That's 36 per state. That's not that many.

Alan

Obviously semantics at this point, but to me that makes it a relatively common occurrence in my mind. 100m is frequently/routinely broke in HS competition. I'd say it's common for HS athlete to run 9:0x for 2M and 4:0x the mile. Sub 9, and certainly sub 4, move into the territory of what I would view as uncommon.

11.0 100m is still a very strong time though, on par with 1:54/4:15/9:10/14:40 if you go by IAAF's tables.

"Sub 9 and certainly sub 4 move into the territory of what I would view as uncommon."

Sorry but you're just...wrong. Nine US high schoolers have broken four in the last 53 years. Nine. Athletic.net has roughly 70,000 results for the 1600m last season. I assume fewer guys ran the mile in the past--significantly fewer, say an average of 20,000 per year from 1964 onward, since we don't want to double count the kids who ran the mile across multiple seasons--and you've got 1,060,000 kids who raced the mile over the last 53 years.

Nine out of a million isn't uncommon. It's really, really, really rare.

Sub 9 isn't "uncommon" either--it's really rare. Last year was a good year for distance track--41 kids under 9 for 3200 (around 35 under 9 for a full two miles). Out of 43,175 performances. That's 0.094%. Sub 9 any given year puts an athlete in the top tenth of a percent or better of all athletes that year. That's not uncommon--that's really rare. Anyone with understanding of high school distance running would consider it exceptional.

9:0x and 4:0x are also rare. Last year 122 kids were 9:09.99 or faster for 3200. In other words, 9:09.99 and up put you in the top 0.283% of all 3200 runners last season. It put one in the top three tenths of a percent of all two-milers in the country. 37 guys ran 4:09.99 or faster last season, out of 69,535 recorded guys performances on athletic.net. That puts those kids in the top 0.053% of all male milers.

A sub 11 100m also isn't common. 1836 kids ran wind-legal sub 11s, out of 98,111 performances. That's 1.871%--not in the same realm as 4:0x (or even 4:15--IAAF tables are intended for adult athletes, and conversions between distance and sprint events don't work well for high schoolers; I'd use the mercier juniors tables, which put it at 1:56.88/4:18.85). You can argue that it's semantics, but under 2% is not "common" by any measure.

Sub 4 mile is common for high schoolers, wtf? Maybe sub 4 1500m and sub 9 3k

Deanouk. From memory of Ovett autobiography he was still running 100m races when he set pb for 400m. Is have to check but seem to remember about 11.4 was his best?

200m is the best test of an middle distance runners speed as most are not great starters. Not sure that 21.7 would be accurate as the runner is either at the start or finish and with no gun its going to be out.

Even if accurate a good example is Johnson never breaking 10 for 100m. He had the speed but not power or technique off start. Plus superior speed endurance.

I'd put him around 11.1-2 but it's conceivable he could dip 11. I stand by few elite 800m runners breaking 11. They are just not built or trained for it.

To other posters a college kid running 1:50 off 10.9 is fundamentally a 400m sprinter and proves nothing

800ftw. wrote:

Sub 4 mile is common for high schoolers, wtf? Maybe sub 4 1500m and sub 9 3k

Read again. He said it´s (sub4 mile) really really rare rather than uncommon

ReadMore wrote:

800ftw. wrote:

Sub 4 mile is common for high schoolers, wtf? Maybe sub 4 1500m and sub 9 3k

Read again. He said it´s (sub4 mile) really really rare rather than uncommon

I think you're referring to my post; the original post I (and I assume 800ftw) were responding to contained the following:

I'd say it's common for HS athlete to run 9:0x for 2M and 4:0x the mile. Sub 9, and certainly sub 4, move into the territory of what I would view as uncommon.

cali boy wrote:

ReadMore wrote:

Read again. He said it´s (sub4 mile) really really rare rather than uncommon

I think you're referring to my post; the original post I (and I assume 800ftw) were responding to contained the following:

I'd say it's common for HS athlete to run 9:0x for 2M and 4:0x the mile. Sub 9, and certainly sub 4, move into the territory of what I would view as uncommon.

Yes, rare, even extremely rare would be a much better word than uncommon for sub4. I don't know what I was thinking there saying "uncommon".

I think something that happens many times a season is common, which is the case for 4:0x/9:0x/11.0 performances. Or perhaps worded a different way, it's uncommon for an individual to run any of those times.

However, in the context of a given national track season it's very common to hear about someone running 11.0 or 4:0x or 1:55. In fact, there is probably a story per week or more on these boards in spring about different HSers running 4:0x and low 9 times.

ukathleticcoach wrote:

Deanouk. From memory of Ovett autobiography he was still running 100m races when he set pb for 400m. Is have to check but seem to remember about 11.4 was his best?

200m is the best test of an middle distance runners speed as most are not great starters. Not sure that 21.7 would be accurate as the runner is either at the start or finish and with no gun its going to be out.

Even if accurate a good example is Johnson never breaking 10 for 100m. He had the speed but not power or technique off start. Plus superior speed endurance.

I'd put him around 11.1-2 but it's conceivable he could dip 11. I stand by few elite 800m runners breaking 11. They are just not built or trained for it.

To other posters a college kid running 1:50 off 10.9 is fundamentally a 400m sprinter and proves nothing

I agree with most of this, especially the last sentence.

I do think, however, that 21.7 is probably pretty accurate, and it would have been timed by his father. This was also the last in a series of reps, so in a one off 200m from blocks in peak season, I am sure he could go sub 22.0 FAT.

Btw, have you changed your profile name? Are you the same guy, ukathleticscoach, that I've discussed things on here with for years?