What ELSE does Centrowitz need to do to be considered the best American Miler ever?

smile wrote:

Top 4 greatest American milers of all time:

2. Glenn Cunningham (4th & 2nd at Olympics, mile world record)

So Centro has been 1st and 4th at the Olympics (better than Glenn) and 2nd and 3rd at the World Championships, and 1st at the Indoor World Championships, and you think Glenn is better? Even though Centro has better medals than him IN A MORE COMPETITIVE ERA? Old world records are not relevant. Does the fact that Roger Bannister had the mile world record mean he is better than Centro? No, because Centro can run 3:59 in his sleep. Use a time machine to transport Glenn to 2016 and Centro would slay him every time.

bloviating wrote:

Exactly. Salazar has found a way to exploit tactical championship racing by working on a finishing in low 50's for Centro, Mo and Rupp. Breaking american records should be a goal besides accumulating medals for jogging and outsprinting.

Really? Because when it comes to rejuvenating American distance running, you're going to get much further by having people win Olympic medals when the whole world is watching than time trialing a 10k in some obscure meet that is only viewable online. Do you think more people care about the fact that Rupp time trialed the 10k AR on some lonely night in Eugene, or he brought home bronze in the marathon Sunday?

Centro is the greatest. He won the Olympic Gold, something none of the other runners were able to do.

You can't just use a time machine to bring GC or JR to 2016 and race Centro. You would have to use the time machine to bring a 14 year old GC or JR to say 2004. If either one had trained during the same years as Centro, what would the result be?

In that case, I think JR wins Centro is second and GC third. Similarly, Centro doesn't beat Liquori, Scott or Lagat.

For example, does anyone think Centro Jr would beat Centro Sr if they were on the same high school XC and track teams back in the 1970s?

Conversely, if Sr was moved to Jr's team in the early 00s, how much faster would he have run?

smile wrote:

anbessa or oshi? wrote:

No one likes it when this argument is made, but Lagat's 2004 silver in the 1500m and the 3:27.40 he ran that year were both done when he was an American (not Kenyan) citizen.

Wrong. He was a Kenyan citizen too. And he chose to represent them, hence why those performances don't count as American performances and why that time wasn't ratified as an American record.

Kenya did not allow for dual citizenship in 2004. When Lagat became an American, he effectively was no longer Kenyan.

We can split hairs over representation at the Olympics, but it never made sense to me why his 3:27 wasn't retroactively ratified. He was American at that point, period. How can that not count?

Win a couple fast races against top quality competition. < 3:30 or < 3:48. That is really the only thing missing.

No other american in the discussion has the Olympic gold (beating a stellar field, no less).

Centro has other hardware to back it up in 2 WC medals, so It would be difficult to argue the told was a fluke.

I think a US GOAT also needs a record of domestic dominance. Check.

Pretty much all he has to do is not get caught doping.

After 137 sub fours I will reconsider Matt.

Centro Nation wrote:

bigtool05 wrote:

The problem with Ryun as the GOAT is that his career was like 3 years long. Centro takes it handily IMO.

The problem with your opinion about Ryun is that you must be "like" 3 year old. As others have pointed out, Jim MF Ryun was ranked in the T&FN top ten in the world from 1965 through 1972. That's a span of 8 seasons, for the arithmetic-challenged, but he was not world ranked in 1970, so I agree to call it a very short career of only 7 seasons as one of the world's top ten.

In case all those words above are too complicated for you, tool, the message is: Ryun's career was much longer than 3 years.

In how many of those seasons did Ryun accomplish something that is the least bit relevant to this conversation? Three. 1966, 1967, and 1968. It's like saying Webb had a long career because he ran 3:37 in 2011.

Jim Ryun ran in a time when a 3:40 1500 was considered a fast international elite time. All Centros needs is a few diamond league wins and a sub 3:50 mile. All of a sudden the mile is America's best distance event!

Perfect analysis. Centro has to show some staying power -not a one race wonder!

What Alan Webb accomplished in July 2007 still remains better than what Matt Centrowitz has accomplished. He ended the Outdoor season ranked # 1 in the world in the 1,500 meters and Mile. 3:30.54 to win the IAAF Golden League meet in Paris on July 6, 2007. Then 3:46.91 to win a meet in Brasschaat, Belgium on July 21, 2007. He also posted the # 2 time in the world in the 800 meters with a 1:43.84. There is no way Matt Centrowitz would have beaten him during this period of time.

What other Americam miler has 4 medals from world champs/ olympics?

oh was there an Olympics event that I missed? he ran an Olympic mile and a 1500m? I guess he is the best. I only saw one.

For those who say that Centro couldn't have beaten Liquori, Webb, or Scott in their primes, would you say that Kiprop couldn't have beaten those Americans? Centro beat one of the best milers in the history of the world last week. In his prime. He beat Makhloufi and Souleiman in their primes.

Ryun and Lagat are the only ones who should be in the discussion with Centro.

Trackbot! Asbel Kiprop vs Matthew Centrowitz

Trackbot! Taoufik Makhloufi vs Matthew Centrowitz

Trackbot! Ayanleh Souleiman vs Matthew Centrowitz

Had Murphy been in that 1500m Centro had a coin flip's chance of being the 2nd best American that day. Murphy is has proved himself a great racer and is faster over 400 than Centro. That slow pace could have been perfect for Murphy's 45.X 400 meter speed.

http://live.pttiming.com/?mid=3