What ELSE does Centrowitz need to do to be considered the best American Miler ever?

Sydney Maree?

I think a combination of championship wins as well as times are needed. With the olympic gold, WC bronze, and pretty consistent wins at USAs, there's a good argument for him being one of the best championship american milers.

However, and I know there has been a lot of discussion with this, the olympic final was such a bizarre race that it is difficult for me to say that Centro's gold is more impressive than, say, Lagat's silver in Athens. I think the fact that centro will likely get his ass kicked in any upcoming diamond league meets he enters supports this.

To me, what he'd have to do is win at least one more championship medal as well as break or come close to breaking the american record in the mile, 1500 or both in order to cement him as the best american miler ever.

It will definitely remain a matter of dispute, unless he:

1. Sets a world record (cf. w/Ryun & others).

2. Has a streak of victories in significant races. I guess he's about there already on a domestic level.

I will admit that I'm a fan of Centro. That said,

He does not need anything else. He is the GOAT miler (1500er, whatever) in US history. He is third fastest US 1500 man ever (behind two men not born or raised in the US).

Once he runs under 3:30 later this year (and presumably breaks the AR), there will be no argument against him. People who say Jim Ryun is better because he had the WR are delusional.

Nothing else

Centro is the MANGOAT

I don't understand the WR argument. He is faster than Ryun was! Just because the WR is faster now and unattainable does not make him worse than Ryun.. Please explain.

Sourced wrote:

I will admit that I'm a fan of Centro. That said,

He does not need anything else. He is the GOAT miler (1500er, whatever) in US history. He is third fastest US 1500 man ever (behind two men not born or raised in the US).

Once he runs under 3:30 later this year (and presumably breaks the AR), there will be no argument against him. People who say Jim Ryun is better because he had the WR are delusional.

The thread title says MILE. Webb is the American born AR holder. Centro needs to break that, at the very least.

But Americans used to break the WORLD Record in the mile. If the OP is considering only the raw time, unadjusted for era, then maybe he doesn't care about Ryun and others--but he has to consider Webb.

I forgot about Sydnee Maree, he should certainly be in the discussion.

I tend to agree that he is an excellent championship racer (hence the Olympic gold and multiple USA championships) and that the Olympic final was slow overall, but a very fast finish.

It begs the question of what is the point of racing? Is it to win or finish very high or is it to run the fastest time? I know that is the big criticism of Mo Farah - he wins, but has very few blazingly fast times and never seems to go after records like all time greats Geb or Bekele

Scott could not compete in 1980 because of the boycott. It wasn't likely he would have won gold but you never know. He did win a silver in the inaugural world championships in 1983.

Let him run for 2/3 years with some note worthy places or times and he'll likely own that title for a generation or two.

It's not easy to compare what Centro has done as an adult as opposed to Ryun and Webb who came to fame as high school kids have done. Centro doesn't have the records like Ryun/Webb do, but he has I believe the medals most coveted by athletes, WC & OLY Gold!

Centro Nation wrote:

The thread title says MILE. Webb is the American born AR holder. Centro needs to break that, at the very least.

But Americans used to break the WORLD Record in the mile. If the OP is considering only the raw time, unadjusted for era, then maybe he doesn't care about Ryun and others--but he has to consider Webb.

I'm including the 1500m as part of being a "miler". There is no mile in the Olympics or World championship so the only major championships one can win is in the 1500m. Part of the argument for Ryun includes his world records and dominance of his era (despite winning "only" Silver in the Olympics). He was also very far ahead of his time. His WR stood for a very long time.

Obviously comparing across eras is tricky because what was a world record many years ago is not even as fast as an American record now. I included Webb as a possiblity in part because of him American mile record, his HS record, which broke a big barrier mentally for the many kids who have broken four since then (not sure how to quantify this, but it certainly had an impact), and his diamond league win.

Lagat and Maree had a good portion of their success representing other countries though Lagat does hold the US 1500m record and won the 1500/5000 double in the World Champs. How much more is an Olympic medal worth than an World Champs medal. Lagat has also had amazing longevity (though not all as a miler), which was probably not available to others in past generations due to amateurism

To be the best miler, he'll have to run the mile in an AR. The 1500 is a stupid distance and is NEVER to be considered equivalent to the mile.

Not doping and being an arrogant punk would help

Very very few Americans have broken the world Record n the mile in the last 60 years.

Pander festival wrote:

Not doping and being an arrogant punk would help

Until he tests positive we have to give him the benefit of the doubt - innocent until proven guilty - this is the USA after all. His being or not being a punk is also completely irrelevent. It isn't about who is the most likable american miler, but who is the best - however you define that.

In the least he'll need the AR in the 1500 and the mile.

He'll probably do that.

A world record would go long way because Ryun held world records.

That is not likely. But the Olympic Gold compensates for lacking a WR.

He needs to have a #1 world ranking on the year at least once.

And that would mean a world leading time.

Basically he needs to run fast and put up a number of international wins over a season or two.

He needs to set an AR in the mile. I know you intend to include 1500m when you say Miler, but I think there is a difference. To me, a mile is all about time. There are no championship mile races. The 1500m is all about winning. No one cares about 1500 times until they are converted to the mile.

I just wanted to point out that Jim Spivey has run 3:49.80. That's faster than Centrowitz.

He needs the American record or another Olympic medal, otherwise he's ranked with Steve Scott or Marty Liquori. While his 1500 win has a certain perverse tactical brilliance (Salazar has been trying to win this way for years, and finally succeeded), his competition certainly should be faulted for playing right into his hands. The race was slower than the winning time in 1948, and for that reason the medal loses some of its luster.