Rudisha 1:43.35 (Negative Split!) in Hungary

What the troll named bgh, and most others, don't understand is that the physical demands of each event change AND SO DOES THE PHYSIOLOGY OF EACH ATHLETE WHO SPECIALIZES IN THEM. Take two runners running 800m. One is a 400m runner, who can tolerate 17mmole lactate without breaking down in form or pace. The other is a 3000m guy, who cannot acquire more than 7 mmole, as he has not done the lactate-tolerance work and is not genetically predisposed.

If both do the first 100m in say, 13.0 sec, the physiological effect is very different. For the 3K guy, he sprinting all out, and will soon have to drop from the race. The 400 guy is comfortable and can continue, with a gradual slowdown, for an overall positive split, say of 26/28/28/30=1:51. The 400 guy wins of course.

If instead the 3k guy goes out in say, 14.0 sec the first 100, then his lactate is tolerable (under 7mmole), and he can continue without decrease of pace, as his superior aerobic engine dissipates any further addition of lactate. So running this way, he can run 28/28/28/28 and contend at the wire for the win. So two athletes, two strategies for the win.

Now the 800 specialist has the lactate tolerance of the 400 guy, and also the aerobic support of the 3K (or at least 1.5K) guy. So his best race will fall in between the two: 27/28/28/29. So you can see where the typical 2-sec. positive split for an elite 800 race comes from. For those who are chosen and train the event, it has a "special" characteristic, due to a higher lactate tolerance than found in distance events. Distance races do not start out near a sprint the first 100m, as it would impose too high a lactate load for the remainder of the race. For the 800 it can be done, due to the special training (and genetics, not all runners can build high lactate)

This effect is even greater in the 400. No top 400 runner will ever win against serious competition with even splits. They would feel as if they are jogging the first 200 and losing the benefit of accumulating lactate to run a faster overall time.

Ewe wrote:

Statsfacts wrote:

Everyone runs negative splits, eh dumb dumb?

Oops, thanks for catching my error.

You must be very proud!

You made that error in multiple consecutive posts. That tells me all I need to know about your cognitive abilities.

PLEASE DO NOT CONTINUE HIJACKING THIS THREAD WITH THE POSITIVE/EVEN/NEGATIVE SPLIT DEBATE.

SEE

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=7500174

MakwalaFan wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hXA7wHmhJs

Fastest time in the world this year. What is amazing about this run are his splits. Som hits 400m at 50.9, but it's a decent gap to Rudisha. I timed Som 3 times and averaged 50.65; Rudisha and averaged 51.65 ... so add the .25 and he was 51.9 at the bell.

1:17.84 at 600m, which gives a last 200 of 25.51.

It looks like Rudisha negative split then, 51.9/51.45 !

It'll be something he tries in the final in Rio, but it'll be for naught since Tuka will probably run 52.0/49.5. Rudisha is not that caliber any longer I'm afraid.

Troll, Tuka will definitely not split 52/49.5.

Statsfacts wrote:

Ewe wrote:

Oops, thanks for catching my error.

You must be very proud!

You made that error in multiple consecutive posts. That tells me all I need to know about your cognitive abilities.

Ah yes, a truly brilliant person who thinks that there is some meaning in a careless error - perhaps repeated (not bothering to check here) out of carelessness.

You are truly a deep thinker!

bgh wrote:

Hysterical Anecdote wrote:

You are not an 800 runner or coach, clearly.

I don't need to be. There is nothing special about the 800m. It does not defy the laws of physics. The best way to run your fastest at any event is even effort. If you are tying up at the end then you went out too fast. 800m runners don't know the difference between correlation and causation.

You have basically admitted that you neither coach nor run the 800. Atheletes are lucky you are not a coach, because this is just terrible advice. The fastest 800m times have almost exclusively been done at around 2 second positive splits. To say that all 800m runners ever are dumb and you know better than them is foolish. You are a fool

rowberringer wrote:

Rudisha looks like he would have been good at any sport

Well... not Sumo wrestling.

bgh wrote:

Hysterical Anecdote wrote:

You are not an 800 runner or coach, clearly.

I don't need to be. There is nothing special about the 800m. It does not defy the laws of physics. The best way to run your fastest at any event is even effort. If you are tying up at the end then you went out too fast. 800m runners don't know the difference between correlation and causation.

Even effort and even pace are two entirely different things.

Watcher of Olympics wrote:

Gold medal in Rio and GOAT

YEP.

ijenns318 wrote:

HardLoper wrote:

Rudisha should fear Alfred Kipketer who's beaten him and everybody else multiple times this year

Lol he has only had 2 really good races. He killed it at the Kenyan trials, but BARELY beat Kszczot in Monaco where I think Kszczot would have won had he not been boxed in the entire race until the last few meters. I think that if Rudisha were to actually go out with the pacemaker instead of giving him a second gap we'd be seeing 1:42s or even dipping under. I feel like Rudisha is afraid of going out that hard nowadays.

Spot on! Rudisha indeed was "scared" of the two lads(Kitilit and Kipkoech) who ended up finishing 2nd and 3rd behind him. You could see him monitoring where they were in the big screen. Kitilit and Kipkoech are very hungry, very unpredictable and very explosive once they decide to pounce on their prey. The caught Rudisha by surprise at the Olympics trials and did the same for France's Bosse and Rudisha had every reason to worry about the two here. Its great to see him come out with a win in the end. Such great competition is good for his preparation for his Olympic title defense.

For Alfred Kipketer, his only chances of winning is if someone hits the front from the start and tries to go for it. Kipketer has the most strength to draft behind a fast pace and kick away at the end. In the world youth championships he split 48:xx before finishing in 1:48:xx while leading wire to wire. At the Kenyan Trials he drafted on Kitiliti and Kipkoech before outsprinting them at the end. He cannot win tactical races because his change of gear is very slow. That is why I do not expect much from him and if he is not very careful he might not make it to the finals unless he front runs hard.

This has become a dumb discussion. Between running the half mile and coaching it; I have a 30 year connection to the event and I don't know of any serious athlete or coach who advocates negative splitting. When the gun goes off, you haven't spent any energy, why would you not make that your fastest 200? In world class races, when an athletes even or negative splits, it was not by design, it simply played out that way.

Likely because they don't test at small meets...

Yeah I don't see Alfred kipketer winning it.

You've got

Bosse - in better form again, but I think more likely 4th or 5th. He just doesn't quite seem to have the speed or ability to come through at the end

Amos - no idea what shape he is in

Rudisha - not in 2012 shape, but is he likely to win it anyway? That video suggests he is

Other Kenyan - certainly a medal chance

Berian - likely finalist but that's all. His style suits heat running

Tuka - around the 3rd/4th mark I think

Ksczot - I think if Rudisha doesn't win it, Ksczot will. He only lost to AKipeketer in Monaco because he got boxed in. Having said that, getting caught out in the qualifying rounds is a possibility too. Ksczot now is seasoned, has good strength at the end, and good speed. He's also a smart racer.

My tip is something like:

1. Rudisha

2. Ksczot

3. 3rd Kenyan

4. Tuka

5. Bosse

6. Berian

7. Lewandoski

Kipketer to miss final, Amos a ?? Aman might make the final

By the way who is going from Kenya?

Rudisha

Alfred Kipketer

F Rotich who has won Diamond League meets this year

Nicholas Kiplangat Kipkoech

Jonathan Kiprotich Kitilit

Talk about an embarrassment of riches.

Very long thread, and only one knowledgeable post.

Fastest time in the world this year. What is amazing about this run are his splits. Som hits 400m at 50.9, but it's a decent gap to Rudisha. I timed Som 3 times and averaged 50.65; Rudisha and averaged 51.65 ... so add the .25 and he was 51.9 at the bell.

1:17.84 at 600m, which gives a last 200 of 25.51.

It looks like Rudisha negative split then, 51.9/51.45 !

Editor's Note: We edited this post to embed the race video.

come on guy wrote:

Gunior wrote:

His splits were not amazing. They were fine.

You are an idiot.

Those splits are highly unusual. 51.9 / 51.4.

Find me a faster second lap in a race that fast. I won't hold my breath.

Moron.

a second 800 in under 52 is incredibly rare, even after a 53 + first lap.

check it out and find a single race this year where someone closed in under 52 period.

I think the first three. The last two would make it to the finals but would be burnt-out by then to even be in the competition.

Rudisha's up-ward swing though slow makes him a favorite. Amos is of unknown value since the best he ran in the diamond leagues was 1:47 but then came to the African championships and ran 1:45. Judging from this race, Rudisha is in at least 1:42 shape and would have run that if he had gone with the pacer. I doubt Amos will be in 1:42 by the time of the games so I don't think he will contend but you he could sneak in for third. Amel Tuka always has a kick. My pick would be:

1. Rudisha Low 1:42

2. Rotich

3. Bosse

4. KscZot

5. Tuka

6. Berian

7. Kipketer

8. Amos

TrackCoach wrote:

This has become a dumb discussion. Between running the half mile and coaching it; I have a 30 year connection to the event and I don't know of any serious athlete or coach who advocates negative splitting. When the gun goes off, you haven't spent any energy, why would you not make that your fastest 200? In world class races, when an athletes even or negative splits, it was not by design, it simply played out that way.

So you wouldn't advise them to run it from the back like Billy Konchellah used do to then?

Any idea why he was stronger in the home straight than everyone else?...