Blazing fast last laps at the CA state 1600

Tamagno dodged Cortes at State. Tamagno running career has flat lined . Cortes got stronger and peaked at State. Tamagno knew it and decided he thinks he's Gods gift to HS and Oregon.and thinks he's gonna run sub 4.. Did he? No. Will he, not this year. Will he ever win an NCAA title?will he ever win a PAC 12 title? No. He peaked in HS. He's done and he knows it.

post-season wrote:

cali boy wrote:

To make it to the state finals, CA kids have to race a lot.

Michael Norman has qualified for the Olympic Trials in the 200 and 400. Do you think HS kids should be banned from post-season events like this: junior nationals, etc? I disagree with you, because there should be a national level event where the best can compete against the best.

You're extrapolating on my points regarding California track and field to infer something that I did not say and do not believe. National level events are great, and many kids--especially those from less-competitive states/sections--can benefit from them, it's just that the vast majority of California kids are burnt out and ready to take some time off by the time postseason national meets roll around.

Norman is the best male high school runner in the country right now (possibly bar Lyles? I'd put Norman's 45.19 over Lyles' 10.16). He is on a completely different level than any other Californian high school track athlete and explicitly stated that he did not peak for and was not focusing on CIF state.

I don't have a horse in this race, but its a bit disingenuous to imply that a kid who has ever run under 4:05, can do so any time he wishes, and that running a 4:09 would be significantly easier enough to make a big difference. And he would have to run 4:09 or better, since he is not going to go for the slowest possible qualifying time, and taking a chance getting boxed in or tripped. He will, in your own words, have to "run to win" and stay clear of possible bumps. And if he is running to win, that means even faster than 4:09. So D1 finals, Masters, state prelims and state finals are all very close to max efforts even for someone who has run sub 4:05. And you better hope you don't get sick or just have an bad day. Then your toast (in the 100 degree weather which seems to hit the state finals more often than not).

Personally I would have liked to have seen Tamagno run the state meets, but I won't deny that if he went that route, the effort required makes a sub 4 effort later extremely more difficult than it already is.

Who won the Cali state meet 1600m 4 years ago? 5 years ago? Very, very few people would know this. But if that person had broken the 4 minute mile, you could multiply the number of people who know that person by a 100. Probably by a 1000. Maybe by 10000. And Tamagno won it last year already. Yes, I still would rather see him run the state meets, but I understand his reasoning.

Thanks for cutting part of my post out to make it better support your opinion?

For someone that can run a 4:05, running 4:20ish (League Championships) isn't going to wreck them physically and limit their ability to run fast in the coming weeks.

For someone that can run a 4:05, running 4:20ish a second time (CIF-SS D1 Prelims) still isn't going to wreck them physically and limit their ability to run fast in the coming weeks.

... those were two very salient points you skipped over in your quote. I never said anything about 4:09 being a walk in the park for someone capable of a 4:04. Perhaps read the post again: For someone that can run a 4:05, all they have to do is run a 4:10-4:15 and they advance. That is three consecutive weeks of racing, but only the last one is completely all-out. That is contrary to the other example I pointed out, the 4:10-4:15 guys that are MAYBE top 50 in the nation. Those aren't the guys that are gunning for national titles (in all likelihood, at least, as there are others who have run faster with less opportunities).

My point was that while the California system is grueling, the very elite (e.g. US Top-10) athletes aren't really any more disadvantaged than some of the other top areas around the nation. For example, how fast do athletes in the top Illinois, Minnesota, New York, Texas, and Washington (etc.) leagues have to run to get to state?

Examples from this year, according to Athletic.net:

4A District 1/2 in Washington: 4:16

4A District 5/8 in Washington: 4:17

3A District 5/8 in Washington: 4:15 (4:17 through the AQ mark)

2A Section 6 in Minnesota: 4:12 (4:16 through the AQ mark)

6A Region 1 in Texas: 4:16

.... those certainly aren't that different than the 4:14 it took to get out of the CIF-SS,

So, do I think it's disingenuous to point out that the very top California athletes aren't being disadvantaged when it comes to their ability to run at post-season national level meets? No, not in the slightest.

It is not unique to California that athletes in competitive leagues have to run against good competition just to make it to state. Nor is it unreasonable to suggest that a kid can take it easier, going through 1200 about 10 seconds slower than might be ideal for them, in such meets in order to conserve himself for later races if he so chooses. There is nothing forcing these 4:05 type milers to go all out week after week for a month just to make it to state; they are fully capable of treating it like a preliminary/qualifying round, just like other athletes.

I cut out the parts where I agree with you. The earliest rounds for a near 4 guy are not too taxing. My only disagreement with anything you said is that I think the last 4 races are basically all out to win a cif ss div title, masters and state, even for a elite runner. I feel it's harder than you make it sound. If Tamagno ran this year, masters and state would have been 4:02 efforts to beat Cortez.

I think that would be very hard, and mentally and physically taxing.

If Tamagnos goal is to be an all time great HS runner, then go ahead pick and choose your races.I would think the goal though would be long term.It obviously isn't. This kid is an incredible talent in HS. HS is littered with great middle talent has beens. Jeff Nelson, Eric Reynolds, Paul Medvin, and many others who never even came close to running good in college.By him not running State , furthers his rep as an conceited , superstar .What happens when he gets eaten up in Eugene? Those runners are gunning for him, and every workout will be a race. I know he won't run. Sub 4 this year. I am a betting man and Tamagno will NEVER even come close to running 3:57 ever. He will drop out of Oregon, start drinking more, and digging ditches for the next 10 yrs

At what race did Jim Ryun set the HS national record?

At what race did Alan Webb set the HS national record?

At what race did was the national record 400m set?

At what race did was the national record 5k set?

All of them have something in common. Are you smart enough to know without looking? Seems like you're not.

What race was the boys 800m record set? I'll give you a hint, it was 10 years ago.

I saw Pete Richardson , from Berkeley HS., run 1:47:31 at State meet at Cerritos in 80. it looked effortless. Granny set Now Natl record Ca state as well., in the mid to late 80s , .

800146 wrote:

post-season wrote:

At what race did Jim Ryun set the HS national record?

At what race did Alan Webb set the HS national record?

At what race did was the national record 400m set?

At what race did was the national record 5k set?

All of them have something in common. Are you smart enough to know without looking? Seems like you're not.

What race was the boys 800m record set? I'll give you a hint, it was 10 years ago.

Fool. MOST of the NRs were set in meets other than state meets; unlike Granville's 800 record.

You were incapable of answering the posted question without looking.

what's the point? Cortes is the State Champ. Tamagno aint nobody. Like that one guy said Tamagno scared . he knew Cortes would beat him

Did you actually read my post or not?

Nowhere do I say postseason national meets are a bad thing. If you'd actually read what I wrote rather than blowing up over nothing, you'd notice that I said national meets are a good thing. Repeatedly.

Chill, maybe take a break from the internet and go for a run--it'll do you some good, get the blood pressure down.

cali boy wrote:

post-season wrote:

At what race did Jim Ryun set the HS national record?

At what race did Alan Webb set the HS national record?

At what race did was the national record 400m set?

At what race did was the national record 5k set?

All of them have something in common. Are you smart enough to know without looking? Seems like you're not.

Did you actually read my post or not?

Nowhere do I say postseason national meets are a bad thing. If you'd actually read what I wrote rather than blowing up over nothing, you'd notice that I said national meets are a good thing. Repeatedly.

Chill, maybe take a break from the internet and go for a run--it'll do you some good, get the blood pressure down.

0/10

Crash back into your hole, troll.

You are completely ignorant of when and where HS NRs were set.

post-season wrote:0/10

Crash back into your hole, troll.

You are completely ignorant of when and where HS NRs were set.

I literally said postseason national meets are a good thing. What part of that are you having trouble getting through your thick skull.

I'm not sure where you get "postseason nats are bad" from "postseason nats are good but California kids are usually burnt out or already peaked for CIF," but you apparently did. That's not the point I'm trying to convey--at all.

peaker wrote:

If Tamagnos goal is to be an all time great HS runner, then go ahead pick and choose your races.I would think the goal though would be long term.It obviously isn't. This kid is an incredible talent in HS. HS is littered with great middle talent has beens. Jeff Nelson, Eric Reynolds, Paul Medvin, and many others who never even came close to running good in college.By him not running State , furthers his rep as an conceited , superstar .What happens when he gets eaten up in Eugene? Those runners are gunning for him, and every workout will be a race. I know he won't run. Sub 4 this year. I am a betting man and Tamagno will NEVER even come close to running 3:57 ever. He will drop out of Oregon, start drinking more, and digging ditches for the next 10 yrs

How can a presumably grown man hate a high school kid he's never met do much? I don't even disagree much but jeez.

cali boy wrote:

post-season wrote:0/10

Crash back into your hole, troll.

You are completely ignorant of when and where HS NRs were set.

I literally said postseason national meets are a good thing. What part of that are you having trouble getting through your thick skull.

I'm not sure where you get "postseason nats are bad" from "postseason nats are good but California kids are usually burnt out or already peaked for CIF," but you apparently did. That's not the point I'm trying to convey--at all.

0/10

It is long past your bedtime little boy.

I met many middle distance HS phenoms at UCLA in the early 80s . Guys that won many multiple state titles ,and sum that placed high in Ca.State Meets from 79-84. So much talent ...and very nice ,down to earth guys.So many expectations were placed on them,due to all being on scholarship.Some were injured ,some realized academically they couldn't cut it, others had other interests besides running.They were just kids. Strain of training took its toll, I mean their college kids! I knew another mediocre kid who went to Oregon and trained with the x- country team under bill dellinger in 81.he flourished.! I remember him saying how workouts were like a big race on a daily basis. He had zero pressure to perform but almost everyone else had to perform every day.It ate a lot of guys up. Me personally, I disagree with Tamagno decision to skip State, and shoot for a sub 4 mile. That's a lot of pressure for a kid.What do his future upperclassmen teammates think of his prima Donna antics. Are they roll out the welcome mat and say good luck frosh? Hell no! Tamagno has already created a target on his back for these guys who will bury this kid and sent him packing back to Brea faster than u can say sub 4

Have you ever been part of a winning team???? In what reality do upperclassmen at the top distance program in the country put targets on talented incoming freshman and want them to fail????

Successful, winning programs have an environment where teammates encourage and support each other. They want to welcome incoming freshman and encourage them to succeed.

Workouts are for training and not "getting buried." Races are on race day. You already knew that keyboard gold medalist.

wow a 2x state champ?

tamagno: mt.sac record holder, Gatorade cross country runner of the year, fifth foot locker xc championships, has beaten him head to head TWICE at NXN and APU meet of champions, faster PRs across the board from 1600 and up not even close. State champ in the 1600, Broken 9 in the 3200, Multiple state championships and individual. These weren't by accident.

He's gonna peak at Oregon? Ever heard of Blake Haney. He's ran a 3:57 mile. Doubt Tamagno is going to peak.

Get real and stop being so jealous of tamagno's success. He's dominated since day 1.