There are too many Americans competing for USA who were not born Americans. They help to push out American born athletes who have at least dual citizenship.
There are too many Americans competing for USA who were not born Americans. They help to push out American born athletes who have at least dual citizenship.
Why are people not going psychopathic over this then?
The people who oppose it, seem to be quite calm about it.
Why is the whole Pappas thing so much worse?
Well you said he's never come close to make an American team. He has made several - including a silver at the Pan Am games. And no matter what you say, finishing a second back in 6th place, when he was 3rd with 80m to go in the OT certainly is not "never coming close" to making the team. Is only fourth place close to making the Oly team ? It was close. And it was closer than 99.9% of the LRC crowd.
????????? wrote:
hulksmash wrote:People need to tone it down about with the nationalistic stuff.Maybe you missed the part about the athletes at the Olympics representing their NATIONS?
Yes, a competition among nations but Torrence isn't going to be challenging Rupp, Hill, Lagat, True, etc. Pappas isn't going to be running down Huddle or any of the other top Americans. This isn't Johnny Damon signing with the Yankees, nobody is betraying anything or any one in this exchange of athletes other than filling out additional qualifying spots on the starting lists. At the end of the day these races will be more interesting to watch due to the familiarity of the American additions.
We have a lengthy Q&A with Torrence up on the front page here:
Just read an article saying that Torrence can officially race for Peru this summer, can someone shed more light on this please?! I attached the article but it will have to be translated.
Editor's note: We have a lengthy Q&A with Torrence up on the front page here:
PS. We've also merged the two threads on this topic into 1.
Then we have different interpretations of the word "close", neither more valid than the other. Making the Pan Am games team is not exactly a resume-builder, come on. Torrence himself implicitly recognized his shortcoming by switching to the 5k shortly thereafter. In other words, HE HIMSELF, thought he could do better at 5k than 1500m. It's a professional thing, too. At the end of an Olympic cycle, try telling your sponsor that yes, you were sixth, but you were "close," only one second from making the Olympic team. You will probably have to start looking for a new sponsor, which is what happened to Torrence.
Again, you said he never came close to making an American team, He made several. As for thinking he would do better by switching to the 5000 and recognizing his shortcomings (i,e., finishing speed), is that why he is shooting for a 800/1500 double in Rio ?
What This guy is doing has ultimately made me lose all respect for him and I've really rooted for him the past couple yrs, figured his time had to come soon. But to get there like this? I just feel so embarrassed for him.. Just so blatantly disrespectful.. He won't make the final mark my word
DT says he wants to inspire others in Peru with his running - gonna go out on a limb here and say DT will have ZERO influence on the future of distance running in that country.
Scary as s wrote:
What This guy is doing has ultimately made me lose all respect for him...But to get there like this? I just feel so embarrassed for him.. Just so blatantly disrespectful.. He won't make the final mark my word
You might find the interview with him on the LRC homepage interesting. There's more to the story than just an entitled millennial shopping for a flag of convenience. I don't buy all of his reasoning, but he's clearly been thinking hard about this for a while. Plus he's got way more connection with Peru than many of the other nationality shoppers.
It's not as bad as you think wrote:
You might find the interview with him on the LRC homepage interesting. There's more to the story than just an entitled millennial shopping for a flag of convenience. I don't buy all of his reasoning, but he's clearly been thinking hard about this for a while. Plus he's got way more connection with Peru than many of the other nationality shoppers.
Agree. I don't buy the "I wanna inspire young runners and I can do it better in Peru" line of BS but he does have serious connections to Peru. I give him my blessing.
Hi Atop The Andes wrote:
Bad Wigins wrote:He might as well... he's career's been going downhill
But Peru is mainly uphill, no?
It depends on whether you're coming or going.
No comprendo. Me no gusta mucha,
No, because the past few years he wasn't representing Peru. He thought moving to the 5k was his best chance at making a US team. I imagine he didn't WANT TO move up, he was forced to. Now that he is representing Peru, he can run whatever he wants.
Torrence made a World Juniors team. Are you including that in his resume? Here are his places when he attempted to make World/Olympic teams: 1500m: 2011(6th), 2012 (6th), 2013 (7th). 5,000m: 2015 (5th).
The 5k actually was Torrence's best chance at making a US team, but still came up short.
Why is the whole Pappas thing so much worse?
Because it's sports, and in sports, women making their own decisions for themselves - such as asking for equal pay, or asking to be permitted to run the marathon - brings out the classic chauvinists
He won't impact anyone in Peru. He won't inspire anyone
Really. Really? David Torrance is known - to people who closely follow the sport - to be someone who is active and engaged in the community on the social level. He promotes himself appropriately and he has a vision for what sports can be. He's the ideal person to try to impact Peruvian youth.
Most runners of his caliber are not as active socially, nor as involved in promotion. He stands out.
Read his interview with Gault of LRC. He has strategies. He has awareness.
There is just this insane attitude on the LRC boards towards athletes rigidly taking the most difficult path towards everything. There's like a neoliberal approach to the Olympics that says: runners from countries like Peru shouldn't get in over better Kenyans.
People seem to forget that this attitude applies to every meet in track and field, except the national meets and the World Champs and the Olympics. All the other meets bring in 'the best' or 'the best money-makers' or 'the runners the meet sponsors want'.
The whole purpose of the Olympic ideal is to bring in people from around the world.
I know people on this thread are obsessed with anything having to do with 'immigrants' or 'people changing nationalities ruining everything', but this is a stupid and rigid attitude that sometimes has logical merit and many other times is simply inflexible and illogical. It's living in a fantasyland that doesn't exist. Sorry we can't roll back the clock to the fantasy world where everyone stayed within the borders you prefer they do
jenapharm wrote:
DT says he wants to inspire others in Peru with his running - gonna go out on a limb here and say DT will have ZERO influence on the future of distance running in that country.
I thought the real reason is that David Torrence wants to run in the Olympics just like Pappas.
It is interesting that we all get to find out who has dual citizenship in Olympic years. Why didn't David run for Peru a long time ago, like at the Pan American Games? Was Peru there?
A runner with dual citizenship has a much higher chance of going to the Olympics than a runner without dual citizenship.
Will David now compete only for Peru for the rest of his career while he inspires the Peruvian children?
Does it depend on what year it is, what month it is, or what mood David is in at the time?
summerRed wrote:
Why is the whole Pappas thing so much worse?
Because it's sports, and in sports, women making their own decisions for themselves - such as asking for equal pay, or asking to be permitted to run the marathon - brings out the classic chauvinists
He won't impact anyone in Peru. He won't inspire anyone
Really. Really? David Torrance is known - to people who closely follow the sport - to be someone who is active and engaged in the community on the social level. He promotes himself appropriately and he has a vision for what sports can be. He's the ideal person to try to impact Peruvian youth.
Most runners of his caliber are not as active socially, nor as involved in promotion. He stands out.
Read his interview with Gault of LRC. He has strategies. He has awareness.
There is just this insane attitude on the LRC boards towards athletes rigidly taking the most difficult path towards everything. There's like a neoliberal approach to the Olympics that says: runners from countries like Peru shouldn't get in over better Kenyans.
People seem to forget that this attitude applies to every meet in track and field, except the national meets and the World Champs and the Olympics. All the other meets bring in 'the best' or 'the best money-makers' or 'the runners the meet sponsors want'.
The whole purpose of the Olympic ideal is to bring in people from around the world.
I know people on this thread are obsessed with anything having to do with 'immigrants' or 'people changing nationalities ruining everything', but this is a stupid and rigid attitude that sometimes has logical merit and many other times is simply inflexible and illogical. It's living in a fantasyland that doesn't exist. Sorry we can't roll back the clock to the fantasy world where everyone stayed within the borders you prefer they do
If actual Peruvian citizens & RESIDENTS who have competed in prior Olympics can't inspire their fellow Peruvians, how does Torrence think a gringo is going to inspire them.
At least don't insult our cynical intelligence.
messi wrote:
summerRed wrote:Why is the whole Pappas thing so much worse?
Because it's sports, and in sports, women making their own decisions for themselves - such as asking for equal pay, or asking to be permitted to run the marathon - brings out the classic chauvinists
He won't impact anyone in Peru. He won't inspire anyone
Really. Really? David Torrance is known - to people who closely follow the sport - to be someone who is active and engaged in the community on the social level. He promotes himself appropriately and he has a vision for what sports can be. He's the ideal person to try to impact Peruvian youth.
Most runners of his caliber are not as active socially, nor as involved in promotion. He stands out.
Read his interview with Gault of LRC. He has strategies. He has awareness.
There is just this insane attitude on the LRC boards towards athletes rigidly taking the most difficult path towards everything. There's like a neoliberal approach to the Olympics that says: runners from countries like Peru shouldn't get in over better Kenyans.
People seem to forget that this attitude applies to every meet in track and field, except the national meets and the World Champs and the Olympics. All the other meets bring in 'the best' or 'the best money-makers' or 'the runners the meet sponsors want'.
The whole purpose of the Olympic ideal is to bring in people from around the world.
I know people on this thread are obsessed with anything having to do with 'immigrants' or 'people changing nationalities ruining everything', but this is a stupid and rigid attitude that sometimes has logical merit and many other times is simply inflexible and illogical. It's living in a fantasyland that doesn't exist. Sorry we can't roll back the clock to the fantasy world where everyone stayed within the borders you prefer they do
If actual Peruvian citizens & RESIDENTS who have competed in prior Olympics can't inspire their fellow Peruvians, how does Torrence think a gringo is going to inspire them.
At least don't insult our cynical intelligence.
Do you have any idea how many American runners have aspired to be like Bernard Lagat?