Cruz's 800m training ? coached by Luiz De Oliveira

I think its silly to just go by one runner, even if he is a world record holder, and whatever he does it must be the very best way. If Geb would have broke the WR in London, would KK's methods be obsolete? Kipketer's 800 is slightly faster than Cruz', does that mean no 400 guys should try to move up to the 8? This is all circumstantial and definitely not the end all for whats the best way to train.

bump

Les

Thanks to the bump, I noticed your post once again.

While it's true that Coe didn't win the British Olympic Trials in 1984 (at the AAAs Championships), it's not quite true that he finished outside the top three.

Cram and Ovett had been pre-selected (as was often the case back then) for the 1500 and weren't required to run.

Coe and Elliot battled it out for the third spot, the latter winning by a stride or two in a modest 3:38-39.

Coe was selected purely on the basis that his training would be more focused for an Olympic peak (as was vindicated) than Elliot, who was injured soon after the AAAs and ran poorly in Los Angeles in the 800.

As for Coe's inconsistency, well, that's a tough call. He suffered from viral infections for most of 82 and 83, rendering both seasons failures.

In 85, he won more than he lost, and finished third to Cram in 3:49 at the Dream mile. He also ran 1:43.07, coming second to Cruz's 1:42.54.

In 86, he won the European 800m title and set his 1500m PR of 3:29.77 - at aged 30.

I think it's fair to say his inconsistency resulted more from illness and injury than his training or race selection.

Martin

Who finished 2nd at the 85 Dream Mile? was it Aouita?

I thought Cram won with a 3:46 world record with Coe 2nd.

What race am I thinking about?

Abascal was second in the dream mile (in 3:47.79, if memory serves), when Cram ran 3:46 (kicking three times, as he told the BBC afterwards!)Coe third and Scott fourth (I think).

Aouita was second to Cram in the Nice 1500m when Cram beat him by a step and set the first WR in the event under 3:30

...but both races were in 1985, so perhaps that's what you're thinking of?

Martin

Martin: What's the policy for pre-selection for the British Olympic team? World ranking? Times? Is it a fixed number or left purely to the selection committee to decide?

Re: " think it's fair to say his inconsistency resulted more from illness and injury than his training or race selection."

But do you think illness and injury are completely unrelated to his training? Maybe high-intensity training produces superior results, but also breaks down the body faster. Or maybe it's just not possible to keep up that level of intensity for say, ten years. Cruz trained with high intensity and got great results, but also broke his body down.

Les

I think that\\\'s a good point with respect to the intensity of the Coe programme .. he was relatively immune to impact injuries (as you would expect) but was highly susceptible to viral infections (on a couple of occasions).

He was, however, a pretty slight guy - 5\\\'9 and about 120 lbs or so - so I guess the line between fitness and illness was pretty slim, which is perhaps why Peter and Seb chose thier races so carefully.

I\\\'ve always been a bit confused as to why Cruz was similarly affected. I know that in \\\'84, he scratched from the 1500m after winning the 800m, but that was in part becasue (so the story goes) he was kept up until 3:00am waiting for a phone call from the Brazillian president to congratulate him, which lead to him picking up a cold.

Apart from that, I don\\\'t know why he was so prone to infections. Could it have been genetic?

As for the British selection process - well, your guess is as good as thiers.

The BOA/AAA can choose up to 2 \\\"pre-selected\\\" athletes in any event, but how they do that is still a bit of a ponzi-scheme mystery, and it\\\'s lead to some controversial decisions. Excluding Coe in 88 (although I think that was just), Roger Black getting dropped from the European Championships a couple of years ago, etc.

Elliot and Coe were told, so the legend has it, that the AAAs winner would go to LA in 84 in the 1500m. That decision was reversed in committee a couple of days later again, as legend has it, by Andy Norman.

I think some form of pre-selection is a good idea, but it does leave the committee open to charges of bias. The \\\"first three past the post\\\" system works fairly well in the US (especially for the sprints) but I think it could use some flexibility in the longer distances -- as I\\\'m sure Steve Holman would attest.

Martin

Martin

I always assumed that the stress of three rounds of the 800, a fast final, plus heats of the 1500 soon after led to Cruz getting sick. I was thinking more about his 6 achilles surgeries which someone posted. Rather frightening if its true. He was quite a bit larger than Coe, about 6' 2' and maybe 150 lbs. High intensity worked well for both of them.

I'm sure Peter Elliot wasn't too happy about the selection committee changing their own criteria. The system would never work here, as litigious as it is in the States. If Elliot were American, he would have sued the selection committee. In the sprints you'd have three guys sueing for the last spot on the team, claiming discrimination or something.

Hadd did you recieve my email?

Any more information on when Oliveira book will be coming out?

YOU ARE ALL WRONG. TRAINNING DID NOT MATTER WITH JOAQUIM, I KNOW HIM WELL. HE WAS BORN WITH A GIFT. ANY TRAINING COULD HAD BEEN GIVEN TO HIM , HE STILL BE JOAQUIM CRUZ. HE IS FAST SINCE HE WAS BORN.........ALWAYS HAS BEEN EXELENT ATHLETE, WAS EXELENT BASKETBALL BEFORE STARTED RUNNING, BY NOW I GOT GO !!

Martin, I think Jose Luis Gonzalez was second in the Drean Mile.

Cruz was also a good deal over 150. Closer to 170. He wasn't unbeatable as someone else suggested. Cram dusted him pretty badly in '85.

Mr Cruz became ill after all the stress surrounding his comments about the americans that were on drugs and were not caught. Specifically calling Jackie Joyner Kersey a Gorilla or something like that. he was reported as being exhausted from the backlash from his comments and soon after withdrew from the 1500m.

NOTHING BOTHER CRUZ, CALLING JJK NAMES WOULD NOT MAKE HIM ILL. HE I S AN OLIMPIC CHAMPION AND A NATIONAL HERO.

The reports in the paper at that time sited mental distress. He was crying and worn out by the negative press that he was getting. If not from this, than from what...coe had to endure the same races.

In reference to Snell's 1500 being weaker than Coe's. I think a bigger factor was the lack of competition for Snell in his prime (1960-65). He was winning everything and setting world records. It was also an era with fewer rabbitted races, and Snell usually ran to win, perhaps only attempting a WR once/season.

There was an online pdf file with Luiz de Oliveira's training of Joaquim Cruz and other top runners, maybe in The Runner magazine. Does anyone know where it is?

Hi, 13 years later. I\'ve been trained by Lu iz Alberto since 2010. If anyone want some tips of his work.

Just contact me. ;)