The secrets of Asbel Kiprop revealed - Our man on the ground in Kenya says hand him the gold and WRecord

Uh oh.

Odi is sounding a lot like a person named Metric Miler (at Letsrun.com Metric Miler has a very slow 4:05 mile PR).

Come on M & M. Stop pretending you are odi.

It is OK.

That could also explain why you are wrong M &M.

rjm33 wrote:

Uh oh.

Odi is sounding a lot like a person named Metric Miler (at Letsrun.com Metric Miler has a very slow 4:05 mile PR).

Come on M & M. Stop pretending you are odi.

It is OK.

That could also explain why you are wrong M &M.

I'm not Metric Miler. All i did was ask a question. I don't understand why some of you are so negative. In addition, nothing i said was wrong. Altitude DOES have both a benefit and a cost.

odi wrote:

rjm33 wrote:

Uh oh.

Odi is sounding a lot like a person named Metric Miler (at Letsrun.com Metric Miler has a very slow 4:05 mile PR).

Come on M & M. Stop pretending you are odi.

It is OK.

That could also explain why you are wrong M &M.

I'm not Metric Miler. All i did was ask a question. I don't understand why some of you are so negative. In addition, nothing i said was wrong. Altitude DOES have both a benefit and a cost.

I am sorry that you feel we are negative but you are still wrong Metric Miler.

In this workout the cost of altitude is MORE than the benefit of altitude.

However...the benefits of EPO, autologous blood transfusions, HIF stabilizers such as FG-4592 could help to cancel out some of the negative performance costs of altitude…(except for Kenyans BORN, LIVING, and doing "top-tier-super-duper-elite" TRAINING AT ALTITUDE that Renato Canova knows and sometimes lives with…that will not even take an aspirin…and have very strong minds…and somehow all these things have no effect on them and might even decrease performance in this unique group of people on this planet).

OK?

Basically, he is taking pretty short rests between the reps but a significantly longer break between what are, in effect, sets. This structure to a workout is as old as the hills - think Igloi!! also getting faster as the workout proceeds is pretty standard structure. How many people reading this have done similar sessions starting with the 200s and ending with the 1200? Very, very few I bet!

It is a very impressive session whether at altitude or sea level, paced or unpaced!

but... wrote:

Bigtool05 wrote:

Which would be a fair point if all he did was the 1200

Well, first of all, no they don't. El G's mile record was 2:47.91, so if it's not a sub-3:27 race, they aren't going through in 2:47. For another thing, you try running 1200 meters at 1500 pace to start a workout. Whether you run 3:50, 4:50, or 6:50, it's pretty insane! Roger Bannister knew he could break 4 when he ran ONE 1200 in 2:59.9. That was just the start of Kiprop's day.

Bannister actually ran a 1200 in 2:52 I believe.

Pardon me now, but is it really that Amazing? Remember the guy has a 3.26 PR.

Accordin to tables etc (eg Jack Daniels etc) isnt that the kind of pace he should run at?

What stroke me as odd was that he ran a final 1:38 min 600 m rep instead of skipping that 5th rep.

Wouldnt that have been more wise?

I dunno but I have read that Ovett also ran 200 meters reps at 22-23 sec.

Its Amazing times for sure but not thaaat Amazing considering he is a 3.26 man...

I don't know how accurate the Daniel's charts are for 1200 meters BUT, if Asbel ran that 2:47 as a race it would be equivalent to running a 3:33 1500 or a 3:48 mile. Obviously this was not a race, so some credit is needed I think. If he ran a solo 3:48 mile in practice, I'm sure there would be no naysayers left.

Futile sprints wrote:

but... wrote:

Well, first of all, no they don't. El G's mile record was 2:47.91, so if it's not a sub-3:27 race, they aren't going through in 2:47. For another thing, you try running 1200 meters at 1500 pace to start a workout. Whether you run 3:50, 4:50, or 6:50, it's pretty insane! Roger Bannister knew he could break 4 when he ran ONE 1200 in 2:59.9. That was just the start of Kiprop's day.

Bannister actually ran a 1200 in 2:52 I believe.

Indeed he did. Before Helsinki in 1952. But before his sub-4 in 1954, it was the 2:59.9. There's a lesson about not racing your workouts somewhere in there.

OliverBrown wrote:

Pardon me now, but is it really that Amazing? Remember the guy has a 3.26 PR.

Accordin to tables etc (eg Jack Daniels etc) isnt that the kind of pace he should run at?

What stroke me as odd was that he ran a final 1:38 min 600 m rep instead of skipping that 5th rep.

Wouldnt that have been more wise?

I dunno but I have read that Ovett also ran 200 meters reps at 22-23 sec.

Its Amazing times for sure but not thaaat Amazing considering he is a 3.26 man...

Forget the absolute numbers. He ran 3:26 last year and is apparently running more impressive workouts this year, putting his training partners away by greater margins. It's the comparison of Asbel Kiprop 2016 to previous seasons that has Kenya very excited.

Spaghetimonster wrote:

I don't know how accurate the Daniel's charts are for 1200 meters BUT, if Asbel ran that 2:47 as a race it would be equivalent to running a 3:33 1500 or a 3:48 mile. Obviously this was not a race, so some credit is needed I think. If he ran a solo 3:48 mile in practice, I'm sure there would be no naysayers left.

This. He ran a 1200 time that only what, 15-20 people in the world could run at any given time, AND he did it at 7000 feet. And if that wasn't enough he then did 5x400 with very short rest at sub-1500 pace. And he STILL wasn't done because he followed that up by 5x200 at 800 pace with short rest. I cannot believe that people are minimizing the impressiveness of this workout. This is special stuff even by Kiprop's own lofty standards

OliverBrown wrote:

What stroke me as odd was that he ran a final 1:38 min 600 m rep instead of skipping that 5th rep.

My first thought when I read the last one was a 1:38, at the back of the pack, was he meant 1:28 ... The usual typo/error that you see a handful of in every Letsrun article.

Just my guess though. From about 1:24 for the first 4 to 1:38 for the 5th would be a huge drop off. Given the quality of the others doing the workout, It seems they'd be at least a tad under 1:30,

Obviously a work out like this is even more impressive as it is at altitude. However, I'm convinced the effect on someone who has always lived at altitude is far less than someone from sea level.

I can imagine Kiprop wouldn't feel much different had he done the same workout at sea level.

Have to say that Kiprop certainly didn't look in 3:26 shape at Doha the other week, but then again he may have been taking it easy.

His splits were very even and he had good pacing/drafting.

Splits were - 41.4, 56.3, 57.5, 56.9 (42.6)

or 55.4, 56.3, 57.8, 42.6.

Last 200 - 28.3, last 100 - 13.9

Not indicative of someone in WR form or even sub 3:30, but obviously 'how easy it was' or how much he held back can't be measured.

Probably be able to tell more from his next race.

Yes. I think the thing to take away is that it is AMAZING what a 3:26 guy can do in practice. At altitude. A really top workout even by Kiprop's standards. He's not doing this every week. Probably only a few times a season if that.

Yeah, definitely not in sub 3:30 shape, straining to his max...

ich bin wrote:

Yeah, definitely not in sub 3:30 shape, straining to his max...

https://twitter.com/Cathal_Dennehy/status/728625764384575490

I did say 'based on the splits' of the Doha race he didn't look to be in WR shape, and qualified this by saying it depends how easy he was running.

Certainly I have seen Kiprop run more impressive 3:32 races from a statistical point of view.

ISBN wrote:

ich bin wrote:

Yeah, definitely not in sub 3:30 shape, straining to his max...

https://twitter.com/Cathal_Dennehy/status/728625764384575490

I did say 'based on the splits' of the Doha race he didn't look to be in WR shape, and qualified this by saying it depends how easy he was running.

Certainly I have seen Kiprop run more impressive 3:32 races from a statistical point of view.

"Look how relaxed he is! This is 3:30 pace..." [Steve Cram]

Winning by a second and a half over 3:29 and 3:27 men, waving to the crowd and easing up with 60m to go. What are these more impressive 3:32 races?

ISBN wrote:

ich bin wrote:

Yeah, definitely not in sub 3:30 shape, straining to his max...

https://twitter.com/Cathal_Dennehy/status/728625764384575490

I did say 'based on the splits' of the Doha race he didn't look to be in WR shape, and qualified this by saying it depends how easy he was running.

Certainly I have seen Kiprop run more impressive 3:32 races from a statistical point of view.

Just because I can't stand people who talk out of their butt...

"I'm convinced the effect on someone who has always lived at altitude is far less than someone from sea level. I can imagine Kiprop wouldn't feel much different had he done the same workout at sea level."

This statement is just plain dumb. Yes, altitude effects athletes in varying degrees, but its effect is NEVER negligible. I can understand you making the argument that Kiprop's 1200 split should not be given the same conversation rating as a "sea level" athlete (2:47 @ 7300 feet coverts to roughly 2:42), but to say that he "wouldn't feel much different" is ridiculous. Kenyans claim that they "feel" the difference between racing in Eldoret (7000 feet) compared to Nairobi (5000 feet). In case you don't know, the higher the altitude the less oxygen. If an athlete is adapted to high altitude and has extraordinarily high hematocrit levels, putting that same athlete in an environment with more oxygen (ie sea-level) will only increase the potential for higher performance. In other words, the Kenyans flock to the high altitude regions of the Rift valley because the training is MORE difficult.

"Have to say that Kiprop certainly didn't look in 3:26 shape at Doha the other week, but then again he may have been taking it easy."

Ok,so you obviously didn't watch the race, or maybe you think jogging the last 400 meters and waving to the crowd down the home stretch is bad form. Either way, you clearly have no clue what 3:26 shape looks like. I'll give you a hint though, it's similar to running 1200m in 2:47, then 4x400 in 55, and then 4x200 in 23.

"I did say 'based on the splits' of the Doha race he didn't look to be in WR shape, and qualified this by saying it depends how easy he was running."

Deer god... Listen pal, do yourself a favor and get through high school first before coming to the LR boards. I'm sure that your peers will help you outgrow this kind of stupidity.

ISBN says: "I can imagine Kiprop wouldn't feel much different had he done the same workout at sea level."

You can imagine that but it would not be correct.

I have lived at 7,100 ft. and trained at between 7,000ft to over 12,000 ft. for the last 25 years. I have seen some workouts by world champions, Olympic medalists, male world record holder in the 10k at the time, a guy with a 1500m PR of 3:26.34 that I have already posted a workout of previously here, a 3:29 1500m guy, a 2:04 marathoner, US record holders, 27min 10k guys, sub 4minute milers, 2:11 marathoners, sub-2:30 female marathoners, etc.

I have also been a doctor for the last 26 years. During that time I have also seen blood test and other lab test results for some of the runners listed above because I was the doctor who was ordering and doing analysis of the blood tests and other lab tests for those runners…so I have some knowledge of the effects of altitude, EPO, autologous blood transfusions, FG-4592, xenon, krypton, and various other things on hemoglobin values and blood test results (Paula Radcliffe is so happy to hear that news!).

Altitude slows everyone down because there is less available oxygen for everyone. It is true that people that have had more time to adapt to altitude over 3 to 6 weeks or even over longer periods of time like years (or a lifetime) will slow down less than someone who has just recently arrived in the last week without any altitude adaptation and then did a hard workout or race at altitude.

If Asbel Kiprop did that exact same workout at sea level, it would have faster times with the same effort, (or the same times as at altitude with less effort).

I personally do not think that there is anyone else on the planet that could do that workout at 7,300 ft. altitude at the present time.

Just a personal opinion.

OK?

Remember when ventolin said that Kiprop needed to put on some weight ("propulsive muscle" I believe) if he was ever going to reach the top level as a middle distance runner?

Good times.