Minimalist, what was your experience?

Last summer I switched to flats..Was wearing the Adidas Boston Classic without problems...Saucony Fast Twitch was the culprit..Achilles problems since July...I went back to my Boston Classic..better for awile..then worse..Now I am running in Nike Tailwind..So far so good..Flats would be fine for me on race day or speed work..but I need a good trainer...

the NB900 has a 10/20 ratio -- same as most racers.

Old Man By the Sea,

When I first got into flats, a few weeks in, an old injury on my bursa, coupled with tight soleus irritated my achilles. So I spent three weeks in the Burn, let it heal, and was very good about stretching and icing and then went back to my flat.

Trackhead, I have stretched and iced till my face turned blue..Achilles is still bad..My P/T has helped alot...Since I go the Nike Tailwind it has gotten better...The worst injury I have ever had...I have put in 40 or so miles a week the last 3 weeks..I hope I can continue to run...I think I need a trainer..We have no grass to train on where I am..Concrete jungle here

Mr. Flats wrote:

Common sense does not need to be peer reviewed. The less shoe one wears the better the efficiency. The better the efficiency the less likely one is to get knee injuries. Higher heeled trainers create more shock up the lower leg into the knees, and also inhibits a proper mid-foot to forefoot transition because of the excessive heel. Why do you believe shoe companies blinded that more shoe is better for your knees when there are many studies which show this to be false.

That is interesting. When I switched to flats, I was coming off of an injury back in the beginning of May 2004, I switched to flats and built up very cautiously. For about 2 to 2 1/2 months, my legs never felt better. My flats were very worn out by late July and my legs began to feel trashed.

I bought the retro Nike Waffle XC flats off of Eastbay and began running in those. Almost instantly, my injury started coming back (it was tendonitis in my left medial ankle). After gutting it out for a week or so, I decided to take 2 weeks off. After 2 weeks I started back up, but not quite as high in order to allow my legs to readjust to the pounding. Five days later, I was running an easy 8 miler, and at a little over 7 miles, I suffered an excruciating knee injury out of nowhere. I didn't land awkward. It just began killing me.

3 1/2 months later I finally was able to run for more than 2 minutes without pain. When I started up, I still had the waffle racers. My ankle pain once again came back and was killing me by the end of December.

I bought DS Racers and the pain has subsided without interrupting my "training". Right now, I'm up to 45-50 minutes per day, but my knee still bothers me sometimes and I think there is major scar tissue build up. It just does not feel right.

If anyone here remember's FLGRUN, he has given up running for good because of a metatarsal injury he suffered while running in, I believe, the H Streets. He got hurt in early October and still is unable to run without pain, so he's hanging them up at 19 years old.

Is this a continuous topic or what? Do what you want - wear what you want; however, if you are seriously interested in the physics of the matter, common sense prevails: less is more - always has been and always will be; however, all the references cited here like Noakes' "Lore of Running" and "Explosive Running" that warn against "...too much shoe," don't mean a thing unless you've tried it. Personally, and this should mean something, I've got 25+ years of running behind me - 15 of them being rather competitive. I sold running gear for six years in one of the earliest running stores; I sold the first Airs, Gels, Hydro-flows, Torsions, DRBs, Internationalists, Bermudas, Montreals, etc. Would you believe me if I told you that I tried EVERY new technology that's made its way to the shelves, and I've always had fewer injuries, faster rehab, and better training in pure racing flats - BUT, years ago I was too stupid to see the correlation. Stress fractures, various tendon problems with the "soft" technology; ITBS, shin splints, lateral knee problems w/ the "stable" technology; and I always went to a flat - for some reason - while trying to recoup. I guess because it just felt better. Live and learn; or along the Sheehan way of thinking, go ahead and be an experiment of one.

Thanks Sooner, I shall.

Is wearing flats just for small people? I am 6'1" 185 lbs. I'm not fat but I do not have a runner's build by any stretch of the imagination. Would I be asking for trouble if I started wearing shoes with less cushioning?

Well put!

Are you considering running or just walking? No, it is not just for small people it is for all humans who wish to have healthy feet and bodies. Being at and ideal body weight is best because any extra weight you are caring around will put more stress on the feet and ankles during the transition.

What do you blame your other injuries on? It sounds like you have not taken very good care of your body. Flats are not the cure to running injuries. Over-use injuries can happen regardless of whether you run barefoot or wear the brooks beast. It sounds like you are not training properly which is your primary cause of your injuries. If I were you I would take an extended break from running and allow your body to heal from your injuries. Once you feel you have rested thoroughly begin with a better training strategy.

Mr. Flats wrote:

What do you blame your other injuries on? It sounds like you have not taken very good care of your body. Flats are not the cure to running injuries. Over-use injuries can happen regardless of whether you run barefoot or wear the brooks beast. It sounds like you are not training properly which is your primary cause of your injuries. If I were you I would take an extended break from running and allow your body to heal from your injuries. Once you feel you have rested thoroughly begin with a better training strategy.

Considering I didn't detail my training at all, I'd say that is an unfair assumption. I would be willing to wager I take care of my body more than 99% of the people on this board. Some people are injury prone, and there is no way around it.

Sure, I have had my fair share of injuries while in trainers as well. I honestly do not know why I hurt my knee the way I did. What I do know, however, is prior to this incident, I never had even a hint of knee pain from running.

If you consider yourself injury prone then you are definitly over training in some portion of your training or have biomechanical deficiency which is causing your injuries. I would find someway to determine which is your major problem and then proceed with a good plan to fix it. If you would like to leave your email I will give you some advice.

Was your training in the Nike Waffle Racer II's (retro version)? If so, I did some video analysis with these shoes; the footstrike was on the lateral part of the heel, which probably increases the stress on the knees. Although much more flexible than regular trainers, they still do have a significant heel lift (compared to a shoe such as the Puma H Streets). I also agree if you're "injury prone" you need to look more closely at your training. Are you running your miles too quickly for your given fitness level (especially when coming back from time off)? I think this played a huge roles for my injury woes. You eventually learn to be more patient and slow down the pace.

I had a teammate who was down with a bad achilles injury. He had about 6-8 ART sessions and was 100% better.

Trackhead,

You said that you went back to the brooks burn for 3 weeks because an old injury came back when you were trying to transition to flats. Right now I have some plantar fasciatis. I strained a muscle in my arch about 2 weeks ago doing some easy strides in a pair of adidas tapers. I was coming off an injury to my it band that had me held up for about 3 months. Basically I ran in Nike ghost racers for about 5 weeks before I hurt my arch. I did 2 miles everyday for the first two weeks and eventually worked up to 3 miles a day before the injury. I think I did it because I was running on newly thawed grass that was far too soft to be running on with shoes and then attempting to simulate barefoot running with the cross country spikes didn't help. Hurting my arch was just so wierd, cause I had no problems at all and was feeling amazing ever since I started with the flats.

Would it makes sense now that I have the pf problems to go back to training in normal trainers until the problem subsides?

Any thoughts or suggestions for you and or anybody else would be great. Sorry for making this my personal little post.

GS

what are the differences between nike free 5.0 and the nike free trainers

Roll your arch gently on a rolling pin or a baseball bat. Do this 2 to 3 times a day. Each time after you massage it (gently) for 5 to 10 minutes ice it with an ice cup for another 10 minutes. Each time I have had soreness in my foot this has relieved it within 3 days to a week. If it is not severe you should either continue with your normal training or cut back. If it is severe don't run at all, bike or swim for 3 days. This should clear it right up.

To add further to this thread, I think that training in flats is good as long as one is smart and does so in a logical manner. Don't go cold turkey and just start cranking out 100 miles a week, tempo runs, hard strides, and other workouts right away. Do it gradual, use your head, and chances are you'll be fine and enjoying your running just that much more.

This running in flats has actually been very humbling for me. MLBFAN, I used to think that I took good care of my body. I mean I warmed up well, stretched, iced, did some light lifting, ran some hills, watched my diet, slept well, you know the deal. HA! Put some flats and I found my weakness were big time. I've run in orthotics of everykind, motion control this, stability that, no more injury shoe 2,985,398,382 whatever the numbers are and I STILL GOT HURT. Wait I have orthotics, I can't get injured, wrong. Ok I'll run in flats, now I won't get injured, wrong again. Injuries happen and I don't care who you are or what you do I bet that you could be doing more than you are. For me I know I have a boat load of strength and flexibility issues to work on. My hamstrings are shit! That guy John Molvar, who did all that Lyrdiard stuff awhile ago had a good line in an email he wrote me, "durability is the ultimate talent." If you don't have it you can build it and I believe that flats are a vital component to that.

DO I think that you should run 100 miles on asphalt in h streets, no. Finds some trails. Can some run 100 miles in h streets on whatever they want, obviously unless there are a lot of liars on this board. Can I run 100 miles in h streets right now...I can't even run 60 miles per week in anything with out getting hurt. Whats the solution...strengthen my body slowly, train smart, take care of myself. To me it makes more sense that my body be strong enough to resist injury, poor form, etc. I don't want to rely on shoes, or orthotics to do what my joints, muscles, ligaments, and tendons should be doing themselves.

As for the Active Release Therapy I highly recommend the treatment.

http://www.activerelease.com

Punch in your area code and they'll come up with some guys in your area. I strained my arch muscle on a sunday, saw a local ART practicioner on thursday and then the following monday. By tuesday I felt fine and I could feel the strain in the muscle was gone.

This is a good thread, I hope I helped some people, sorry if I didn't.