Reid Coolsaet busts the myth that Kenyans don't get tested out of comp

Well, at least if you test positive you can bribe your way out of trouble:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/dfdc30f20f924f418871016aa2d628e5/two-kenyan-athletes-serving-four-year-doping-bans-come

sounds to me more like kenya taking minor and inadequate steps to try to avoid being exiled from the games for absolutely rampant cheating, no blood testing, no testing without notice, and really hardly any testing until now. It is no myth that Kenyans HAVE NOT been tested much at all out of comp. That is the actual history and not much has changed if they are not blood testing or testing on the spot.

As we've seen when the Kenyans are tested positive a lot are getting out of it through bribes most likely, what does Renato have to say about that?

After reading what's in this thread it just makes me want to stop running and competing. It makes me want to become a hobby jogger and shuffle along.

I had enough hearing about all these athletes cheating. If the testing cannot be done properly or if it can't be 99% effective then it should not be done at all. So much money is wasted on trying to catch the drug cheats and it's not working. So why can't all competitive athletes instead be educated in how to safely use PEDs. Make the drugs available to anyone with a manual on how to use them properly. Share the knowledge and the drugs and let everyone have a chance at pushing the limits of human performance

After the OT, maybe the Brojos can rech out to Wesley Korir and get an interview. These articles are getting Interesting. It would be good to get Korir's take on this.

Renato Canova wrote:

All the blood tests OOC of routine are not for detecting the substance, but for looking at the data of the values.

Let's examine this one claim, nothing else, because Mr. Canova might have a valid point. Page 188 lists ABP tests for IAAF athletes. The region 5 anti-doping agency in Africa is not listed. Zero.

Look at page 179. 3317 ABP tests performed by the IAAF for 12 months. Mr. Canova may have me beat! Uh oh Pop_pop!..

What kind of ABP testing did the IAAF do for marathon in 2014? 213 total. About 6% of all ABP tests.

What have we learned about the IAAF? They never test positive athletes. Many of them.

Some funny stuff in that report including Russia's amazing and deep ABP (biopassport) testing. Page 178 shows the labs used for biopassport tests. REMARKABLY, the IAAF's fixer Martial Saugy's lab is running most of them for in-competition.

Renato Canova wrote:

Again I have to speak about a lot of not accurancy when there are Kenyan in the middle.

...

The evidence is that THERE ARE IN KENYA MORE TESTS THAT IN ANY OTHER COUNTRY, INCLUDING BLOOD TESTS.

People need to stop to say stupidity when don't know facts and run behind wrong informations.

Renato, can you please post the evidence that shows there is more testing taking place in Kenya than any other country?

Over what time frame is there more testing being conducted in Kenya than i any other country? The past 12 months? last 5 years?

metric assassin wrote:

Renato, can you please post the evidence that shows there is more testing taking place in Kenya than any other country?

Over what time frame is there more testing being conducted in Kenya than i any other country? The past 12 months? last 5 years?

I'll give Mr. Canova some assistance. It wasn't 2014, that's for sure.

Count me in as highly suspicious of Reid Coolsaet and his group training in Kenya. Same with Fernando Cabada in Mexico.

The same altitude and trails are available in numerous areas of the American Southwest, with high quality American training partners and at much lower travel, jet lag (in the Kenya case) and logistical cost. The major difference is in the ease of procuring PEDs and avoiding unforeseen testing.

So it turns out the tester has been storing samples like this for two years, WITH NO SUBMISSION FOR TESTING. So my original point stands: there is no blood testing OOC in Kenya.

So go ahead and gifslap yourself.

suspect 1.0 wrote:

Count me in as highly suspicious of Reid Coolsaet and his group training in Kenya. Same with Fernando Cabada in Mexico.

The same altitude and trails are available in numerous areas of the American Southwest, with high quality American training partners and at much lower travel, jet lag (in the Kenya case) and logistical cost. The major difference is in the ease of procuring PEDs and avoiding unforeseen testing.

Nearly as many runners based in SW US have been caught for epo as in East Africa.

The key element is the time, more than the place. If you are going to catch them, it usually in the offseason.

Clerk wrote:

suspect 1.0 wrote:

Count me in as highly suspicious of Reid Coolsaet and his group training in Kenya. Same with Fernando Cabada in Mexico.

The same altitude and trails are available in numerous areas of the American Southwest, with high quality American training partners and at much lower travel, jet lag (in the Kenya case) and logistical cost. The major difference is in the ease of procuring PEDs and avoiding unforeseen testing.

Nearly as many runners based in SW US have been caught for epo as in East Africa.

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

metric assassin wrote:

Renato, can you please post the evidence that shows there is more testing taking place in Kenya than any other country?

Over what time frame is there more testing being conducted in Kenya than i any other country? The past 12 months? last 5 years?

I'll give Mr. Canova some assistance. It wasn't 2014, that's for sure.

Replying to myself. It's possible the bulk of the 200-something tests (worldwide, 12 months) were done on Kenyans. Like so many drug cheats before, mysteriously never testing positive.

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

I'll give Mr. Canova some assistance. It wasn't 2014, that's for sure.

Replying to myself. It's possible the bulk of the 200-something tests (worldwide, 12 months) were done on Kenyans. Like so many drug cheats before, mysteriously never testing positive.

That is not what he is saying, or at least not in the text I quoted (below):

"The evidence is that THERE ARE IN KENYA MORE TESTS THAT IN ANY OTHER COUNTRY, INCLUDING BLOOD TESTS." -Renato Canova, February 2016

Canova is clearly stating that (he believes) there is evidence to support the claim that there are more tests taking place in the country of Kenya than in any other country in the world. Given what I've read in the media, citing lack of facilities in Kenya and how the Kenyan federation is not meeting WADA expectations, I find it very difficult to believe the above quote from Canova is true. However, I am open to the possibility that Canova is telling the truth and there is more testing taking place in Kenya than in ANY other country in the world, and so I wait for him to present evidence to this end.

How can it be that no one can describe the testing? Why are we all reduced to interpret Ing canova's statements? Are we expectedto watch the sport and not understand the testing practices in various countries?Sadly, MMA may get serious about doping before IAAF.

People here are a little bit lazy, and are not able to go to the IAAF site to see the statistic about antidoping controls (this is the evidence).

However, I want to help the lazy boys.

These are the number of tests in 2012 (this is the last year there was the report from IAAF, may be because after the period of bribes started...) :

Registered Testing Pool (RTP) (all type of tests, blood and urine together) :

KEN 348 14.7%

RUS 336 14.2%

USA 222 9.4%

ETH 171 7.2%

JAM 126 5.3%

UKR 94

BLR 82

TUR 74

GER 72

MAR 62

CHN 60

GBR 51 etc.....

Blood tests (Biological Passport) - Pre Competition

RUS 42

KEN 38

TUR 23

ETH 18

USA 12

MAR 8

SPA 7

FRA 7

POL 7

GBR 6

CHN 6

ITA 6

Blood tests - Out Of Competition (OOC)

RUS 92

KEN 25

TUR 16

ETH 3

USA 10

MAR 7

GBR 11

Urine Tests - After Competitions

KEN 141

USA 94

RUS 89

JAM 67

ETH 64

GBR 24

MAR 18

Urine Tests - OOC

KEN 144

USA 106

RUS 113

JAM 50

ETH 86

GBR 10

MAR 29

Total tests (urine)

KEN 285

USA 200

RUS 202

JAM 117

ETH 150

GBR 34

MAR 47

This is the evidence.

I think that, if we MUST point that there is not an effective and efficient Antidoping Agency in Kenya (that's true), we CANT say there are not antidoping tests (both blood and urine) in Kenya.

So, it's time to quit to say stupidities, using the belly instead the brain.

People always dredge up the IAAF figures for anti-doping.

They also always fail to mention that the reason that Kenya, Russia, Jamaica, Ethiopia are at the top of the list is because they don't have proper anti-doping measures in place in their own country.

All the other nations carry out their own testing from their own anti-doping agencies, that's why they don't appear on or as high on the IAAF list.

The nations that are at the top are there because they can't be trusted with their own testing, so given the IAAFs recent issues, I imagine the little bit of testing that is done isn't for the bio-passport or to catch cheats, but to at least make it look like they're doing something about it.

Renato, you made a very specific statement:

"The evidence is that THERE ARE IN KENYA MORE TESTS THAT IN ANY OTHER COUNTRY, INCLUDING BLOOD TESTS."

You made this statement in February of 2016. I am asking you to provide the evidence that there is more testing taking place in Kenya than in any other country in the world. I am also asking you to define the period during which you claim there is more testing taking pace in Kenya than in any other country in the world, though that should obviously be a part of said evidence: for example, if your claim is that there is more testing taking place in Kenya over the past 12 months, then present the evidence that you claim exists proving that there is more testing taking place IN KENYA than in any other country in the world between February 2015 and February 2016.

Your claim wasn't about the year 2012 nor was it about Kenyans being tested IN OTHER COUNTRIES. This topic is clearly about drug testing taking place in Kenya, not whether Kenyans are being tested at competitions in other countries.

As I posted previously, I am open to the possibility that your claim is true - that there is most testing being conducted in Kenya than in any other country in the world - and I await your presentation of the evidence which you claim exists.

All the tests OOC were carried out in Kenya. WADA carries out OOC tests in Kenya for athletes of other Country, too, but there are no tests for Kenyans OOC abroad. So, this is the evidence that there are a lot of tests OOC IN KENYA.

About what trollism says, he has reason : in many Countries, like USA or many European Countries, the National Antidoping Agencies are working, and of course WADA and IAAF don't waste their money making further tests.

What I say, is that Kenya is the most tested Country in the World from WADA and IAAF directly, and that it's not possible to say that there are no tests in Kenya, like the most part of people was inducted to think.

And I want to say other things too : 90% of Kenyan athletes positive could not be in any Country inside the list of athletes tested OOC, for the simple reason they are not among the best in the Country.

How many "amateurs" are tested positive in nations as US or UK ?

These, for Kenya, are "amateurs" : they can't be in any list including the athletes who must be tested OOC, otherwise Kenya needs to test 500 runners, or US has to test 500 sprinters.

ALL THE TOP ATHLETES are tested several times every year, and the tops of the top have already their Biological Passport. If nobody of them (apart Rita Jeptoo and Mathew Kisorio, with different substances) ever was positive, could not be that the reason is they are clean ?