Was Herb Elliott really undefeated at 1500/mile

There was no testing in their era. But of course the fastest ones weren't the ones taking the opioids and speed! Perish the thought.

Epinephrine substitutes are the best PED possible, as they put the body into an extended fight-or-flight mode even the real thing can't maintain for long, allowing competition performance well beyond an athlete's ordinary ability. But tolerance builds quickly, and permanent neurological changes over time prevent speed from being effective for long. Short careers, races picked and chosen.

Elliott is my athletic hero. When starting out as a runner age 14 (now age 61) I read his autobiography many times and demolished Percy's two books devoted to running over and over again.

Elliott is still the GOAT and Cerutty is a very much neglected authority on running and life in general. A few points need to be made.

1) Elliott scared of competition? Ridiculous! The day after his WR 1500 in 1958 (3:36) went to race the Swedish hero Dan Waern over a mile and won in 3:58. How many of today's stars would compete against top class competition the day after setting a WR?

2) Elliott had a short career, yes, but the amateur laws were very strictly enforced in Australia at that time - even by UK and American standards - and Elliott could not for long combine supporting a family and training as he felt he had to if he was to remain at the top.

3) Cerutty taught that competitive running was only part of life, it couldn't last forever. (Athleticism could and should but that wasn't the same thing at all.) What mattered was excelling at whatever you did; sport, art, music, business, whatever. After 1960 Elliott turned his attention to other things after a totally fulfilling running career.

1955 wrote:

Ryun made 3 as well but, alas, no medals.

Um, silver in '68?

history much? wrote:

1955 wrote:

Ryun made 3 as well but, alas, no medals.

Um, silver in '68?

Brain fart on my part. Thanks!

ok. you're right re the last 200m for Snell

Ovett clearly beat Coe in the 800m. Shame Bayi didn't contest the 1500. Different story then.

i was thinking 80. he ran the steeple

ovett not snell

from memory wrote:

i was thinking 80. he ran the steeple

Bayi chose to run the 3000SC because he knew he had no chance against Coe and Ovett.

Had he run the 1500m and tried to lead as he did in Christchurch, then the WR could have gone but Coe would still have won. Might have stopped Straub getting a medal.

Australia is a country, and combined with other countries is part of the continent Australia. How did you not learn that in school?

Geography was replaced by "Gender Identification and Pronoun Usage"

It's nice to see a time when Armstronglivs used to actually contribute well to these boards instead of the stuck-in-a-loop NPC he is these days. It's not too late to turn back the clock, Armsy, I think many would appreciate it!

Africans engaged in shamateurism. Most of the East Africans had 'jobs' in the army or police, and were able to train full-time on full pay. This was never formally abandoned, hence why Rudisha, Kiprop were 'policemen'. They were decades ahead of the West in their ability to train as pros. This is why Kenya was the loudest voice against prize money in athletics in the 70's and 80's. That famous Ovett vs Rono two mile race in 78 almost didn't happen because the Kenyan athletics federation were suspending athletes who had taken part in meets earlier in the season suspected of handing out cash prizes or appearance money.

Elliott couldn't afford to even race in Europe much. He essentially took 1959 off to devote to his studies and his family, then stopped smoking and started training seriously again after Christmas for the Rome Olympics.

Anyone who thinks he wouldn't be running 3:24-3:26 today is crazy.

It's an interesting idea, but definitely doesn't explain why the East Africans were able to have long careers. If the likes of Snell and Elliott were taking stuff like that, you can bet your life that the Kenyans and Ethiopians certainly would have been. In fact, it was a widely known fact that the East African runners were taking 'Khat' in the 60's and 70's, a herb that is something akin to cocaine, and which is now classed as a ped and which something like 20% of East Africans are addicted to.