Was Herb Elliott really undefeated at 1500/mile

against a lad 3 years his senior- i think when elliot was only 14 or 15 at the time.

I guess I'd believe Elliott himself.

The loss was not at either a mile or a 1500. I believe it was an 880, but would have to check.

From Nov. 10, 1958 SI feature article: "This year, Elliott, twice running sub-4 minute miles (3:59.9 and 3:58.7) within a week's time in Melbourne, went on to stage the most awesome display of personal prowess in track history. In 29 races, from Toowoomba (near Brisbane) to Oslo, Elliott lost only three- at 440 and 880 yards, and at two miles- and won all 12 of his mile runs. He ticked off an unprecedented 10 sub-4 minute miles and bagged the mile and 1,500 meter records with the stunning times of 3:54.5 and 3:36."

"... he is fully expected to run the mile in 3:50 or less within a year or two by everone from John Landy... Even the marathon... is not ruled out; Herb is already verging on marathon training."

"He rarely has lost any race, and never his specialty, the glamour run; the mile."

Thanks. Saves me some searching around. But where on earth did you get a 1958 SI?

He was undefeated yes but he was also a pussy when it came to running against tough competition also. Do you wonder why he never raced snell. Snell would have murdered him. He won some major races but rarely ran at the empire games or aginst those that could have had a shot at beating him unless it was for a worl or olympic title. The guy is seriously over rated.

Snell beat him for sure in an 800

there are lots of pictures out there

true blue wrote:

He was undefeated yes but he was also a pussy when it came to running against tough competition also. Do you wonder why he never raced snell. Snell would have murdered him. He won some major races but rarely ran at the empire games or aginst those that could have had a shot at beating him unless it was for a worl or olympic title. The guy is seriously over rated.

You are an idiot. 1) Elliot did not duck competition, one of his very toughest opponents being someone he trained with on a regular basis--Lincoln, whom he had many close races with. And 2) The Snell and Elliot 1500/mile eras DID NOT OVERLAP AT ALL. Elliot demolished Snell over 1 mile, but Snell had not yet moved up to that distance. By the time he did, Elliot had retired.

1958 Elliott won the 880y and mile at the empire games... hows that not running at the empire games??

he is the best miler the world has every and will ever see... no questions asked.

"You are an idiot. 1) Elliot did not duck competition, one of his very toughest opponents being someone he trained with on a regular basis--Lincoln, whom he had many close races with. And 2) The Snell and Elliot 1500/mile eras DID NOT OVERLAP AT ALL. Elliot demolished Snell over 1 mile, but Snell had not yet moved up to that distance. By the time he did, Elliot had retired."

Exactly right! Elliott basically retired after destroying the field and breaking his own WR in the Rome 1500. He had nothing else to achieve. Snell BEGAN his career at Rome by winning the 800. Their careers had NO overlap. If you want to see something awesome, watch the film of Elliott's Rome win, or his 3:54.5 mile WR of 1958. The guy was really, really, really great.

true blue- you are a true uninformed dumbass.

nothing else to achieve or scared of what was brewing across the tasman? Peter the great would have layed the smack down upon the arogant herb of AUS.

Agreed! Peter Snell was a whole other breed of athlete. Herb Elliot's retirement signified the death of small time track and field athletes-groveling for insignificant victories and pathetic records, relinquishing the thrown to a true champion in Snell. Snell was someone who would truly destroy the record books for the better of international track.

And I really loved the part where Peter cured cancer and saved that little child who was stuck in the well . . .

But seriously, both Snell and Elliot are two of my favorite athletes to watch when/if ever I can see old film on them. They're simply marvelous runners. But in Elliot's defense, Snell never did come close to Elliot's 1500m WR (3:35.6), which was roughly the equivalent of a 3:52 mile; that had to wait for Ryun to demolish. But both of them were among the best racers ever, back in the dark ages when people had to run on cinders and the whole sport had no money in it at all. The one advantage of the professional era is that I suspect that with money around, Elliot would've met Snell in the '64 Olympic 1500m final (and probably wouldn't have left the race for a last minute kick, either); conceivably, both might have still run through '68 to meet Ryun and Keino (just like El-G ran in '96, '00, '04).

Also, I believe Elliot and Bayi are the only two athletes in the sub-4 era to set a 1500m WR in a major championship final (though Keino's 3:34.9 at altitude probably should count too).

thank you. nice post. i love it when someone knows the sports history and then presents their case.

inclined wrote: Peter the great would have layed the smack down upon the arogant herb of AUS.

Can't say as, already stated, their careers didn't intersect.

However, if Lydiard had coached Elliot, he still would hold the WR. Is there really any doubt about that??

Thinkabout it! wrote:

inclined wrote: Peter the great would have layed the smack down upon the arogant herb of AUS.

Can't say as, already stated, their careers didn't intersect.

However, if Lydiard had coached Elliot, he still would hold the WR. Is there really any doubt about that??

uuumm...yes there is

in fact theres quite a few intelligent people who believe that the man who does currently hold the world record is in a different league than elliot

myself included

so doubt...yes

just out of curiosity - how old was Snell when he lost to Ryun in SD