Joan Nesbit Mabe wrote:
Didn't Shelley Steely also run for Dick Brown?
Indeed she did.
Joan Nesbit Mabe wrote:
Didn't Shelley Steely also run for Dick Brown?
Indeed she did.
This, in sum, means that the sport is filthy & has been for as long as some of us feared..
...and people ask me why I look at SI Vault stories on track & field from the 60's to 70's and why I go read the old "Long Distance Log" magazines on line.
Sad to see, but that's the way the World is I suppose.
A lot of women worked with "I-coached-Mary" Dick Brown for a few years-- including me-- in the 90s in Eugene, after Shelly's time. Doesn't mean we were doping! I didn’t see any evidence of PED use by anyone in the group in the mid-90s, other than the pervasive abuse of meds for “exercise-induced asthma†which the local track-fan asthma doctor was eager to diagnose—for free! I don’t believe that asthma doctor ever saw an athlete WITHOUT diagnosing exercise induced asthma. Mike Manley also sent his athletes to that doctor.
Other than that, Dick seemed pretty alienated from the track community, and his focus was all about health. To the detriment of actual training, in fact. He really didn't seem to know what he was doing, and concentrated on form drills to the exclusion of mileage or strength. He seemed to have his own pet training theories he wanted to work out on real athletes. He would do all the workouts first on his rowing machine to see if they were any good. Many good athletes wasted two years of their precious, short careers working with Dick and going nowhere. Marla Runyan, Clare Eichner-Taylor, Vicky Huber (?), probably even SFH considers those lost years. Who am I forgetting?
WastedYears wrote:
A lot of women worked with "I-coached-Mary" Dick Brown for a few years-- including me-- in the 90s in Eugene, after Shelly's time. Doesn't mean we were doping! I didn’t see any evidence of PED use by anyone in the group in the mid-90s, other than the pervasive abuse of meds for “exercise-induced asthma†which the local track-fan asthma doctor was eager to diagnose—for free! I don’t believe that asthma doctor ever saw an athlete WITHOUT diagnosing exercise induced asthma. Mike Manley also sent his athletes to that doctor.
Other than that, Dick seemed pretty alienated from the track community, and his focus was all about health. To the detriment of actual training, in fact. He really didn't seem to know what he was doing, and concentrated on form drills to the exclusion of mileage or strength. He seemed to have his own pet training theories he wanted to work out on real athletes. He would do all the workouts first on his rowing machine to see if they were any good. Many good athletes wasted two years of their precious, short careers working with Dick and going nowhere. Marla Runyan, Clare Eichner-Taylor, Vicky Huber (?), probably even SFH considers those lost years. Who am I forgetting?
Sylvia Mosqueda? You?
There are a few still photos from the 1981 race from around 7:52 to 8:20 or so here:
malmo wrote:
Hanger-on, you were at AW hq when Drenth died, yet you have no knowledge of the fire right around the same time in 1986? Normally I'd call bullshit here, but I really believe that you did miss this one. Perhaps you could try Registrr Guard archives, or let me do the work for you and I'll see if i can get a copy of the fire report. That was big news back then. Suspiciously enough the fire only destroyed paper records. How convenient?
Hey, I can forget stuff that happened last week! This was a long time ago, so I'd never claim perfect memory. My intention was not to argue that there was no fire, just that the other sudden closing stuff was plenty suspicious...
My main point was to say I think Jeff Drenth was clean. Lack of knowledge is not proof that something doesn't exist, of course, but that was my impression.
malmo wrote:
Hanger-on, you were at AW hq when Drenth died, yet you have no knowledge of the fire right around the same time in 1986? Normally I'd call bullshit here, but I really believe that you did miss this one. Perhaps you could try Registrr Guard archives, or let me do the work for you and I'll see if i can get a copy of the fire report. That was big news back then. Suspiciously enough the fire only destroyed paper records. How convenient?
malmo wrote:
The timeline:
4/20/1986 5:12 PM Eugene Fire/ Police Athletics West 3968 West 13 th Ave. Bill Jennings, Robert Spinks
6/2/1986 Jeff Drenth died
7/11/1986 AW Closes
Ah, now that timeline seems to ring a bell. I might have vague recollection of that. I thought the earlier statement was about a fire after Drenth and at the time of the closing. But I'm still not vouching for my own memory!
Jeff Drenth I recall at age 25 died after a workout apparently due to a genetic heart defect.
Like Ryan Shay. It happens but rare. There was another runner that competed for Asics that died, Travis, It happens.
But the fact the AW pretty much closed shop immediately after Drenth;s death alludes to a cover up, Or it maybe was just bad timing and at the same time NIKE wanted to dismantle the developmental aspect and shift to funding current medal contenders when they started Nike International..
Really, Runyun wasted those years? Pretty sure she came from a heptathlete who missed making the Team to an incredible career. Exclusion of mileage? Runyun complained every week about why she was expected to run for two hours when she was an 800 meter runner. I never ran the full mileage he asked for! He coached Olympians during those years - how do you considered that "wasted"????
Travis Landreth did not run for Asics. He was with the Farm Team when he died. Asics later named a shoe for him but he did not run for them.
Overtraining is subjective.
I think people are forgetting that Brown did not morph into a mega-miles guy until later. Not sure why that happened there as he was educated and generally evidence based.
Slaney, Hamilton had Steely were all moderate mileage runners.
dsrunner wrote:
I think people are forgetting that Brown did not morph into a mega-miles guy until later. .
Dick Brown was never a mega-mileage guy. Not even "later."
wejo wrote:
This is super interesting. I've heard the rumors of drug usage by Athletics West athletes for years and knew coach/physio Dick Brown was an influential figure. So when I read in the other thread from RW that Suzy Favor Hamilton says former AW coach Dick Brown told her she didn't need to dope I found that interesting. What I didn't know was the Dick Brown has publicly admitted that AW athletes were on roids. "(Brown said) Athletics West did not pay for performance-enhancing steroids but encouraged those using them to be monitored by doctors. The doctors' bills were paid by Athletics West's insurance provider Brown said."
plus the article says the Nike tell-all book, not Brown said two athletes tried blood doping.
Mac Wilkins, no doubt about it.. But sweet lil' Joanie Benoit tainted by scandal , "please say 'No", although her surprising win after knee injury six weeks before L.A. Olys is ??????
Dick Brown has died. Here is an article in the Eugene paper about him:
and the IAAF:
been around 'ya know wrote:
It is not interesting because it was 30 years ago.
Athletics West is in the history books. It was a different time. The eastern euopean countries had state sponsored drug programs.
However there are a lot of clean athletes who were screwed. There should be no statute of limitations for cheats. Whether its drug taking or institutional cheating.
Nor administraters who allowed it to happen, a la 2000 Olympics and all the shady stuff with the US team.
dsrunner wrote:
I think people are forgetting that Brown did not morph into a mega-miles guy until later. Not sure why that happened there as he was educated and generally evidence based.
Slaney, Hamilton had Steely were all moderate mileage runners.
Brown had a one on one with Lydiard somewhere around 1996 and completely revamped his program. I spoke with him about it in '97 and knew one of his athletes pretty well at the time and the program was almost exactly like a Lydiard program, including mileage. As for being "evidence based," I think anyone who is familiar with Lydiard's runners would say their results would qualify as evidence.
Great stories! Reminds me much of Boulder groups, both past and present.
I think he was Mary Deckers coach for awhile.
How long did Quax coach at AW?
Anyone know?