OFFICIAL MATTHEW MATON SUB-4 THREAD!! HSer runs 3:59.38!!

you dont get it. wrote:

Yes he is older than the average high school kid, I won't argue that. if you think that some how equates to a freshman year in college you clearly never ran for anywhere good (if you even ran in college).

News flash if he were a freshman in college over half the freshman would be older than ]

News flash to you. Maton IS NOT A COLLEGE FRESHMAN. He is a high school senior and as a high school senior he is already older than half of the college freshmen. He is older than 98% of his high school classmates too.

As for your talk about the difference between high school and college, you don't know shitw. Its obvious that you never went to a top program. I have. Both of my hs and college programs were top 10 in the country.

Look, there is no debating this. Maton is as old as Methuselah.

19+ in March is old. But, there have been lots of older runners and no one seemed to give a hoot then. Manzano was old...Paul Cross great 800M runner was ancient. No one really knows how old Lomong is/was either and no one made a big deal about that either.

Once you are into the College pool, no one does or should give a crap.

This place never ceases to amaze. The kid ran a brilliant race, didnt have much help in L3and L4 and stil crossed at 359 low. Guy deserves more than a little credit and respect for a run like that. If you feel others deserve respect and admiration you can dole out some to them as well. A sub4 in high school is exceedingly rare for a reason. It is fast AF.

Trialswatcher wrote:

Look, there is no debating this. Maton is as old as Methuselah.

19+ in March is old. But, there have been lots of older runners and no one seemed to give a hoot then. Manzano was old...Paul Cross great 800M runner was ancient. No one really knows how old Lomong is/was either and no one made a big deal about that either.

Once you are into the College pool, no one does or should give a crap.

The real question we should be asking is whether Methuselah Maton is as old as Grandpa Ches

I could care less about the age.

I do know that in college its a lot easier to go hard because you have people around you to push you where there isn't someone within 10-15 seconds of him at school.

braskey wrote:

. A sub4 in high school is exceedingly rare for a reason. It is fast AF.

Being 19 is exceedingly rare and gives the athlete an exceedingly huge advantage over his competitors.

Trialswatcher wrote:But, there have been lots of older runners and no one seemed to give a hoot then.

Lots of them? Like who?

Sub 4 high school runners by age.

3:59.0 Jim Ryun 17y 1m 4d

3:59.86i Alan Webb 18y 7d

3:59.8 Marty Liquori 18y 19d

3:55.3 Jim Ryun 18y 1m 29d

3:53.43 Alan Webb 18y 4m 15d

3:59.71 Lukas Verzbicas 18y 5m 5d

3:59.4 Tim Danielson 18y 5m 30d

3:59.38 Matthew Maton 19y 1m 10d

Trialswatcher wrote:

Look, there is no debating this. Maton is as old as Methuselah.

19+ in March is old. But, there have been lots of older runners and no one seemed to give a hoot then. Manzano was old...Paul Cross great 800M runner was ancient. No one really knows how old Lomong is/was either and no one made a big deal about that either.

Once you are into the College pool, no one does or should give a crap.

People did care when it was Paul cross and Manzano. People cared when it was LV getting props for freshman and soph records until he choose to skip a grade and get lined up. Let's not rewrite history. There's a reason those names come so easy as overaged people in HS. People made a fuss back then as well. People would have made a bigger fuss if they broke a significant record or barrier.

Either way 3:59 is huge 19 or not and he can obviously go even faster.

Yessir, Letsrun cared about Soloman Haile running high school meets when he was 23 years old.

Pretty sure Jim Ryun had a few more sub 4s in high school. He ran 3:58 in the Kansas state meet (high schoolers only) and didn't he break 4 at the Kansas Relays (high schoolers only)?

So Ryun ran 3 or 4, maybe more, in high school, on dirt tracks.

We have to have a hard cutoff for eligibility to compete in high school and college. It needs to be 18 years 364 days in high school and 22 years 364 days in college. It just isn't fair to have 19 and 20 year olds competing against 15 and 16 year olds.

Let people flunk grades, go on mormon conversion trips, redshirt, whatever. But the day they hit the cutoff, they're out of competition. It is getting out of hand at places like oregon and byu. They recruit every grampa around. ches, maton, LV, rupp, pepiot.

We should be developing our talent. How many 17 year old kids never get a scholarship because they are getting thumped by 19 and 20 year olds in high school? It is difficult enough for a 17 year old to race an 18 year old.

No 19 year old should be competing in high school. No 23 year old should be competing in college. It is that simple. Sorry if that gets you little oregon and byu fanboys all butthurt.

Only Jim Ryun ran sub four mile in all high school competition.

vincent44 wrote:

Only Jim Ryun ran sub four mile in all high school competition.

LV in the adidas dream mile was all high school

Ryun broke 4:00 5 times, also broke 3:42 for 1500 4 times.

Feels like you folks are considering the data in the wrong light. Is Matthew Maton the only 19 year old that has ever ran track in high school? I suspect not.

So if being 19 is such a huge advantage, where then are the other 19 year old high school sub 4 milers?

Fact is Maton was more constrained by level of competition and training at HS level, as are all high school kids. No one here is saying is is better than Ryun. He does however appear to be better than 99.99% of HS runners ever.

In michigan the cutoffs are November 1st. Which means i'm right, at least in my own state.and the oldest kids in my grade had to turn 18 after december 1st.

Mrr82 wrote:

MI runner7771 wrote:

I graduated and i was 18 yrs and about 40 days old, and the oldest kids in my graduating class were 18yrs and 150-200 days old. maton is currently older than i am, and i'm a college freshman. I am by no means below the average age for a college freshman.

He is old, but it's still quite the feat.

Most HS cutoffs are sept 1st or around three. So you're wrong and really bad at math. You are below the average age.

oh please wrote:

Feels like you folks are considering the data in the wrong light. Is Matthew Maton the only 19 year old that has ever ran track in high school? I suspect not.

So if being 19 is such a huge advantage, where then are the other 19 year old high school sub 4 milers?

.

False supposition leads to a faulty conclusion.

It's very rare that 19 year-olds run track. Since the number of 19 year-olds is rare, then the number of 19 year old high schoolers under 4:00 must be exceedingly rare.

Strong race for Maton in those conditions. He did all the work on that last lap to get under 4. He may go faster at the Dream Mile if the weather is good.

Anyway , it's good for running, and congrats to him. Should be a great finish to the HS track season this year.

This kid had a big advantage over other HS kids - up to 5 years ahead! Age cheating. Much like the BYU runners @ 25 competing against 18/19 year olds.

MI runner7771 wrote:

In michigan the cutoffs are November 1st. Which means i'm right, at least in my own state.

and the oldest kids in my grade had to turn 18 after december 1st.

Mrr82 wrote:

Most HS cutoffs are sept 1st or around three. So you're wrong and really bad at math. You are below the average age.

last time I checked the Michigan cutoff has no bearing on what the average age of a college freshman is. averahe age of a college freshman includes all states. Maybe if you had said average age of a Michigan freshman in college, but that'd just be a silly thing to say and you didn't.

So no, you aren't right.

Also starting in 2015 it's sept 1st in Michigan, so your incorrect point will someday be even more incorrect.