TCU and Baylor out! Ohio State in!

split from the herd wrote:

Hey, numbnuts wrote:

some team that had no chance to win isn't playing.

I bailed on all that nonsense years ago. If I am going to watch a sports event, I like it to be a fair competitive battle. Nationally televised football and basketball hasn't fallen into that category in years.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/pbp/201006170LAL.html

Yet here you are posting on this thread about that very subject.

I can see why you make the points you do, but I think you have to look beyond the surface area.

1) Of course some teams are allowed to lose a game and some aren't. Marshall has one loss, but they weren't in consideration for a reason. Meanwhile Alabama lost close at Ole Miss. Compare that with Baylor losing at West Virginia. Alabama has a much better loss. Oregon avenged their one loss in dominant fashion. Ohio state lost the week after losing their first qb EARLY in the season and has been red hot.

2) Alabama would not have been in with two losses. No two loss teams were even in the discussion.

3) Come on man, there was never an actual chance of FSU not being in. If there was just a two team title game they never would have even dropped below the top two.

4) When has there ever been that many undefeated teams? Especially from power 5 conferences? Also, as we already debunked one loss teams are rarely equal anyways.

Dan Patrick has done a number of pieces on this. People's instinct is to want more and more without really thinking about it. It starts with "we need a 4 team playoff." Then it goes to "8 is the perfect amount." And so on and so on. I think eventually we will go beyond 4, but at this point 4 is great. It gave a pretty dramatic regular season and it looks like the 3 games will be pretty solid as well.

"Dan Patrick has done a number of pieces on this. People's instinct is to want more and more without really thinking about it. It starts with "we need a 4 team playoff." Then it goes to "8 is the perfect amount." And so on and so on. I think eventually we will go beyond 4, but at this point 4 is great. It gave a pretty dramatic regular season and it looks like the 3 games will be pretty solid as well."

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As some of the more astute coaches have commented, "the conference playoffs are in fact the quarterfinals". So, the playoffs effectively already include eight teams. The fact that the Big 12 decided to go their own way and not participate in the "quarterfinals" is their problem. I think they will change their ways in the future-scheduling a conference championship game, and getting away from their cupcake games. Heaven knows they already have enough cupcakes among the bottom feeders in their own conference.

Hmmm, where are the requirements for mandatory quarter-finals hidden? Did EsecPN hide them?

"Heaven knows they already have enough cupcakes among the bottom feeders in their own conference."

^This describes the SEC pretty accurately. The east sucks, except GA. Two west teams suck. The Mississippi schools faked it all season.

1/4 finals wrote:

Hmmm, where are the requirements for mandatory quarter-finals hidden? Did EsecPN hide them?

"Heaven knows they already have enough cupcakes among the bottom feeders in their own conference."

^This describes the SEC pretty accurately. The east sucks, except GA. Two west teams suck. The Mississippi schools faked it all season.

Espn has an sec bias, but that has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

Where are these quarter final rules "we" are speaking off. A link is mandatory for such a claim.

In Div 1 FCS, 24 teams are in the playoffs out of 124 teams in D1 FCS.

In Div 2, 24 teams are in the playoffs out of 170 teams in D2.

In Div 3, 32 teams are in the playoffs out of 244 teams in D3.

But in Div 1 FBS, only 4 teams are in the playoffs out of 128 teams in D1 FBS, and they're decided by a committee with no automatic qualifiers. And since there are 5 major conferences and 4 lesser conferences, 5 of the conferences (including at least 1 of the major conferences) will have no representation in the playoff with only a four team playoff.

Yes, four teams are too few.

Conf USA wrote:

Conf USA = FBS . . . LOL

The $EC has to play someone legit. Conf USA it is then.... ROFLOL

Like it or not, FBS includes Conf USA, Sun Belt, American Athletic Conf, Mid-American, and Mountain West. Those schools relish the chance to play a team from a Big 5 conf. Those schools are in no man's land. Unlike FCS, D2, or D3, if a school goes undefeated from CUSA, Sun Belt, AAC, Mid-Am, or M West, they have absolutely zero chance to make the playoffs or even a major bowl to prove themselves.

And the SEC decided that at least 1 OOC game must be played against a big 5 conf (Big 12, Big 10, Pac 12, or ACC).

"FBS includes Conf USA, Sun Belt, American Athletic Conf, Mid-American, and Mountain West"

Cupcakes for the SEC's taking. :-)

SEC = win four OOC games + win 2 of 8 conference games >> Bowl Worthiness

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When The Committee stated that they will give credit for Conference champions, they, in reality, made Conference championship games a quarter final. It is too bad that there are 5 (five) major conferences in the mix because that has the effect of eliminating one from the "quarterfinals". In this case, the Big 12 did everyone a favor by not holding a Conference Championship and thus eliminating themselves from the quarterfinals. This was the reality, not that it would necessarily come out this way every year - but why would the Big 12 put themselves into this position? They did it thinking they could slide into the final 4 more easily (by not taking a chance on having their best team lose in the Conference Championship game). The Pac 10, Big 10, SEC and ACC all had championship games that could have resulted in them having their top team lose, thus sending no one to the Final 4. Had Oregon lost, no one from the Pac 12 would have made it, Had Ohio State lost--likewise. Had Alabama lost - presumably likewise and same with Fla State. The Big 12 gambled and lost -- simple as that! The Big 12 better look at re-alignment, or this problem will continue. The only answer is to have four (4), not five (5) major conferences. Those 4 should each have two divisions with 8 teams in each division. Problem solved.

8 teams would be best. That would include all 5 conference champs plus 3 at large. All one loss teams would get in plus a couple two loss teams from good conferences. The contract can voluntarily be changed since adding one round would increase the revenue for everybody.

what the wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

The committee got it right.

3) Buckeyes played an EXTRA GAME. 12-1 is better than 11-1.

Big 10 played only 8 conference games and then a title game so nine conference games total. Big 12 played 9 conference games in the regular season.

So which game on the Ohio State schedule is the EXTRA GAME of which you speak?

Navy? Kent State? Cincinnati? Or the game they lost to mighty Virginia Tech?

Still an extra game, and when the last game of the season comes against the BEST in your conference, that makes a difference, and it is actually the main reason the committee choose Ohio State over TCU and Baylor. That and the fact that Ohio State simply CRUSHED a 13th ranted team.

Regarding the Virginia Tech game, it was the second game of the season, they were using a quarterback that they didn't think they would be using at that point, and the team just got better and better from then on. Very hard to go undefeated. Baylor lost to West Virginia, so same difference.

How are you playing at the end of the season? Buckeyes beat 3 ranked teams in the last 4 games including the 59-0 waxing of then 13th ranked Wisconsin...a team many people (including Buckeye hater Mark May) said would beat Ohio State. Buckeyes aren't the best team this season, but they are in the to 4, and I think 4th is right. If they beat Alabama, then I will probably say they have a shot to win the next game, but as it is, 4th is right for them.

think before you dial wrote:

In Div 1 FCS, 24 teams are in the playoffs out of 124 teams in D1 FCS.

In Div 2, 24 teams are in the playoffs out of 170 teams in D2.

In Div 3, 32 teams are in the playoffs out of 244 teams in D3.

But in Div 1 FBS, only 4 teams are in the playoffs out of 128 teams in D1 FBS, and they're decided by a committee with no automatic qualifiers. And since there are 5 major conferences and 4 lesser conferences, 5 of the conferences (including at least 1 of the major conferences) will have no representation in the playoff with only a four team playoff.

Yes, four teams are too few.

That is a good point. However, I still think you are looking only on the surface area. I grew up in a town with an FCS team, this year they lost 4 games and still made the playoffs and then got blown out. Not only was the regular season de-valued by a LOT compared to FBS but the playoffs are bad for most of the first couple of rounds because of the large discrepancy in teams. I'm not even going to compare d2 and d3 with FBS, thats like middle school vs varsity, its different. Big time college football doesnt have to be the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality. The playoff SHOULD be prestigious and hard to get into. With 8 teams, not so much.

Here's the thing about Baylor: their non conference schedule was so bad that they had no margin for error this year if they wanted to be assured of a spot in the playoff. They knew that going into the season.

This is compounded by the fact that they play in the only major conference without a championship game, thus one less opportunity for a big, neutral site win that every other conference champion is going to get, literally the day before the committee has to come out with their picks.

So, for the 2014 season, Baylor knew the score. They also knew that if they went undefeated, they would be in the playoff. If you are in one of the big 5 conferences and you go undefeated, you will be in the playoff. The chances of the 5 power conferences all producing an undefeated champion in the same year are so small that they are weren't considering, thus if you go undefeated in a major conference, you are making the playoff.

If you are a major conference team with one loss, you might make the playoff, but you might not. If you win your conference, that helps separate you from other potential playoff teams. This is where the Big 12 screwed Baylor over this year in favor of TCU. The Big 12 could have said that in the event of a tie between two teams, the winner of the head-to-head matchup would be crowned Big 12 Champion. That would have been Baylor this year. Instead, the Big 12 saw that the committee favored TCU, even after their loss to Baylor, so they wanted TCU to be able to claim to be the conference champion as well. They thought that this would give them better odds of at least one of their schools making the playoff. I believe this backfired and hurt Baylor's candidacy. If Baylor would have been crowned the true league champion, there would have been less splitting of the vote between the two and it might have helped Baylor get in ahead of Ohio State. Probably not, but maybe.

So, back to Baylor's resume. They had three non-conference games:

SMU - a team that won a single game all year.

Northwestern State - not only an FCS team, but a mediocre one.

Buffalo - a mid-level MAC team

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that if Ohio State had a comparable non-conference schedule to Baylor that they would be undefeated right now and this whole conversation would be moot.

And, yes, Baylor has to play 9 conference games, but so does every team in the other power conferences when you include the championship games*. Ohio State's 9th conference game was Wisconsin, so OSU played the six other teams in the Big Ten East plus the two best in the west, plus Illinois who is at least bowl eligible.

*And the Pac-12 Champion will always have to play 10 Conference games because they play 9 in the regular season plus the title game.

So, despite the fact that Baylor's non-conference schedule was among the weakest among Power 5 teams and despite the fact that they didn't have the extra conference title game to impress the committee, they still could have easily made the playoff if they had just beaten 7 win West Virginia. But they did not. I think Baylor's resume was also hurt because their biggest wins were all at home (TCU and Kansas State). The road win at Oklahoma was impressive, but tarnished by the Sooners' subpar season.

Also - I'd like to point out that since the Big 12 conference does not have a title game, every team gets an extra bye in their schedule. If makes it easier to run the table when you get an extra week off during the season. True that your conference foes get an extra week off too, but I think it's a greater advantage for the elite teams who have to deal with the weekly mental and physical grind of trying to run the table in your conference.

So, when you look at the whole season, Baylor just didn't do enough to get in this year. If Florida State had lost to Georgia Tech, they would have definitely fallen out and Baylor would be in though both schools would only have one loss. And this despite the fact that FSU's non-conference schedule included Florida, Notre Dame and Oklahoma State. All three of those team underachieved this year, but at least Florida State tries to schedule actual opponents and not automatic W's in the non-conference season. So I don't think the argument that the committee favored name brands hold much water. FSU is the defending champion, has the defending Heisman winner, is the only undefeated team and is a huge name brand but the committee did not exactly rubber stamp them throughout the year.

Great post, couldn't agree more. People always look for who got screwed, but when you actually take a detailed look at it, it makes sense most* years. Another reason why 4 is plenty.

think before you dial wrote:

In Div 1 FCS, 24 teams are in the playoffs out of 124 teams in D1 FCS.

In Div 2, 24 teams are in the playoffs out of 170 teams in D2.

In Div 3, 32 teams are in the playoffs out of 244 teams in D3.

But in Div 1 FBS, only 4 teams are in the playoffs out of 128 teams in D1 FBS, and they're decided by a committee with no automatic qualifiers. And since there are 5 major conferences and 4 lesser conferences, 5 of the conferences (including at least 1 of the major conferences) will have no representation in the playoff with only a four team playoff.

Yes, four teams are too few.

This is the most interesting comparison I've seen yet. No one would ever tell FCS or D2 that they have 20 teams too many in their playoffs. And no sport with 128 teams would ever consider taking only 4 of those teams to a playoff to decide a champion. Imagine if MLB or NFL only had 4 teams decide their championship, and they picked them by committee with no automatic qualifiers.

ESPN has not mentioned this kind of comparison, but of course, they hold the $7B contract for the four team playoff for the next 12 years. They won't want to mention this.

College football has got to expand the playoff and get rid of the polls and committees. That is not the way to settle who is the best. Football should be decided on the field.

Did the playoff committee reveal its votes? Seems like they should for transparency so everyone knows how each member voted.

USA Today reveals the votes each coach submits for their weekly coaches poll.

Notice how Mike Gundy at Oklahoma State voted in the most recent coaches poll. His top 3 teams were

1 TCU

2 Alabama

3 Baylor

Nothing like unbiased objectivity about your own conference.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/ballots/coaches/2014/

\"This is the most interesting comparison I\'ve seen yet. No one would ever tell FCS or D2 that they have 20 teams too many in their playoffs. And no sport with 128 teams would ever consider taking only 4 of those teams to a playoff to decide a champion. Imagine if MLB or NFL only had 4 teams decide their championship, and they picked them by committee with no automatic qualifiers.\"

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EXCEPT....you forget that (as the poster clearly pointed out) the Conference championships are effectively quarterfinals....so, there is already an 8 team championship. Enough said, because the real problem for Baylor (and TCU) was the Big 12 in taking a big risk by not scheduling a real Conference championship. They could have been in had they gone undefeated (like FSU) but they tried to take the easy route by scheduling weak OOC, and then skipping a high risk championship game. The Committee did get it right, and a 4 team championship is the best blueprint.

\"This is the most interesting comparison I\'ve seen yet. No one would ever tell FCS or D2 that they have 20 teams too many in their playoffs. And no sport with 128 teams would ever consider taking only 4 of those teams to a playoff to decide a champion. Imagine if MLB or NFL only had 4 teams decide their championship, and they picked them by committee with no automatic qualifiers.\"

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EXCEPT....you forget that (as the poster clearly pointed out) the Conference championships are effectively quarterfinals....so, there is already an 8 team championship. Enough said, because the real problem for Baylor (and TCU) was the Big 12 in taking a big risk by not scheduling a real Conference championship. They could have been in had they gone undefeated (like FSU) but they tried to take the easy route by scheduling weak OOC, and then skipping a high risk championship game. The Committee did get it right, and a 4 team championship is the best blueprint.