Runners turned cyclists, does this debunk the myth?

Bugging and Bucking wrote:

You don't need the stress of six hours, when you can get it with varying intensities at 4 to 5 hours. Generally I'll hit around 1300 TSS during a stage race week. I'll train for that with a few blocks of 1000+, 900, 1000+, 900 etc.

What is TSS?

Blitzplay wrote:

Moving down four cogs is a lot though. His quads are underdeveloped and that's why there is a big difference in the cog he uses between positions. The more he works on climbing in the saddle, the stronger his quads will get and his variation in gears will get between the two positions. Standing on a bike is the closest you will get to using your running muscles and delivers similar fatigue. Cyclo poster is going to be stronger in that position at the start.

Makes sense. Same problem I have. I'm much faster standing than seated. Even cruising along the flats at a high speed seems easier when standing (if it's not windy).

When I first started I couldn't get my HR up over 160 when seated and my quads would burn out quickly if I tried. Now, 5 months later, that's changed to about 180. Max hr running is in 190s. Guys on group rides have commented on my high rpm, which could be well over 100.

Any suggestions to work on this? Or do I need to?

Training stress score- essentially it is measured through power and how much "work" is put into a ride. You earn 100 TSS for an all out, 100%, 60-minute workout. Of course most workouts are not completed at 100%, so most workouts will accumulate less than 100 TSS per hour.

You can earn more than 100 TSS within a single workout (as long as it is longer than an hour), but never more than 100 TSS per hour. So for example, my stage race days are usually around 240 TSS. It's pretty much scientifically proven that you can't stay above 1000 TSS for a long period of time without breaking down. Each individuals amount of work is based on their FTP, so how many watts they can realistically put out in 1 hour ALL OUT.

If you have to get out of the saddle on the flat, you're in too big a cog. High cadence riders have a really strong aerobic base (heart and lungs are doing the work). It's the same principle as run training. When you have a big base built, you should work on your anaerobic system and put yourself in the hurt zone. Doing seated intervals in a smaller cog and threshold rides. Hill repeats would be a good idea too. It's basically doing speedwork. It's not unuasal for a rider to struggle to get their HR up when they are starting because they are using their aerobic system. They don't have the anaerobic ability to maintain a high HR.

I dont necessarily agree that running will become difficult or that you even build a huge ton of muscle.

There are some really lean guys that look like text book runners on the tour. Likewise I had 2 teammates who were nationally ranked in d2 as well as amateur triathletes back home. So they weren't making a living with tri but were traveling the world going to the big races. Both were still super lean for running. Its probably just more on body type and riding type/training for how much you body changes with riding.

CheckVO2 wrote:

If we are going to measure efficiency, I suggest we look at world class cross-country skiers. In terms of sheer VO2, they usually outclass runners and bikers by a decent margin.

Which has nothing to do with VO2 uptake. Economical use of oxygen/glycogen, is what makes an endurance athlete efficient.

Bugging and Bucking wrote:

Training stress score- essentially it is measured through power and how much "work" is put into a ride. You earn 100 TSS for an all out, 100%, 60-minute workout. Of course most workouts are not completed at 100%, so most workouts will accumulate less than 100 TSS per hour.

You can earn more than 100 TSS within a single workout (as long as it is longer than an hour), but never more than 100 TSS per hour. So for example, my stage race days are usually around 240 TSS. It's pretty much scientifically proven that you can't stay above 1000 TSS for a long period of time without breaking down. Each individuals amount of work is based on their FTP, so how many watts they can realistically put out in 1 hour ALL OUT.

I have to ask if you're the poster formerly known as All of this is nonsense? If you are, What were your W/kg numbers (I remember them being monstrous ( I promise not to open up a debate on them again as I was probably wrong about Lance's numbers). If you're not, What are you're numbers?

No, Stewart sort of retired from running after the Commonwealth Games in January 1974 and he then took up cycling for several months before returning to running early in 1975. On consecutive weekends in March 1975 he won the European Indoor 3000m and the International X Country. He had a pretty mediocre summer season in 1975 but he rallied to make the 5000m final at Montreal. Ran a couple of good 10ks in 1977 - sub 28 min - but then his career sort of faded away.

I think he is on record as saying that cycling helped him retain fitness while giving him a mental break from running.

Prior to all this he did, of course, win the European 5000 in 1969, the Commonwealth gold in 1970 and the Olympic bronze in 1972.

Blitzplay wrote:

If you have to get out of the saddle on the flat, you're in too big a cog. High cadence riders have a really strong aerobic base (heart and lungs are doing the work). It's the same principle as run training. When you have a big base built, you should work on your anaerobic system and put yourself in the hurt zone. Doing seated intervals in a smaller cog and threshold rides. Hill repeats would be a good idea too. It's basically doing speedwork. It's not unuasal for a rider to struggle to get their HR up when they are starting because they are using their aerobic system. They don't have the anaerobic ability to maintain a high HR.

Thanks. I did not mean I have to stand on the flats. Just that, barring any wind, I am actually faster shifting up a few cogs and standing (or was when I first started, this is less true lately).

Yep. That's me. Also one of the cyclists mentioned in this thread haha.

Very good advice here to Dreamin. How long have you been cycling?

Mike was a great runner. I think his blog where he talks about his experiences as a cyclist is interesting. I would have thought the transition from a top level mid-distance runner to a very good cyclist would have been easier. I think his blog says otherwise though. Search for it under "rusty woods" on google. Take a read and enjoy. He writes very well.