So how far did Ryan Hall make it today?

carnuy wrote:

Also Ryan Hall getting Coached by God and performing bad puts God in a bad light.

Does this mean that God can't coach?

or that God doesn't exist and that Ryan Hall is delusional?

or that God does exist and Ryan Hall is still delusional.

TLW wrote:

Le Foot wrote:

So if he made the idiotic choice of running 2+ hours on a busted hamstring, you would have continued to be a fan of his? That makes no sense.

I suspect you weren't a fan in the first place. That's fine, just say so.

You are an absolute idiot and I'll tell you why.

If you drop out at 50 minutes into a marathon, you have a serious injury going into the race and you know this.

If you have a serious injury that forces you out of the race so early YOU DO NOT START THE RACE.

The Olympics is the biggest stage of our sport. Dropping out is totally unacceptable unless something freaky happens like your leg snaps in half and you can't even crawl to the finish line.

Wow, so dropping out is completely unacceptable, but not even starting the race is perfectly okay? (And no, you can't substitute someone else in.) Really interesting philosophy you have here.

The GIGO Gecko wrote:

[quote]VAcoach wrote:

Post hoc ergo propter hoc...studying logic can be burden and completely superfluous when reading LRC

Please explain further how the logical fallacy you mention is in place with regard to Ryan Hall.

This fallacy "is in place" referring to the comment that connects hall's injury resulting from his coaching changes. No one...unfortunately not even hall...can make this causal connection. Post hoc ergo propter hoc is a logical fallacy meaning "after this therefore because of this." This means that just because one event happened after another doesn't mean one can draw the conclusion that one event caused the other.

There are those who claim that Ryan's faith cannot make him a faster runner, well it can't injure him either. Hall could just as likely have been injured with a coach. Now as a coach, I do feel I play a valuable role in preventing injuries, but some of my athletes get injured too. Most runners do get injured...leave his faith out of it.

I pity you if you don't understand how someone who actually claimed to be trained by God is much more likely to run poorly/get injured then the average elite runner who has a professional coach.

Also, how telling is it that thread titles about Ryan Hall now ask How Far Did Hall Make it Today instead of How Fast Did Hall Run?

It's unfortunately how little people realize what a professional athlete does around events besides running the race.

First, Hall is a truly gracious, decent person who takes time for the dozens or in some cases hundreds of people that want to meet, talk or get photos taken with him. What he has done as an athlete, a humanitarian or as a Christian resonates with those who wait in line for many minutes to get the autograph or photo op.

Whether or not you like his current performance or his relationship with God doesn't matter. It DOES matter to a LOT of people and they would much rather have a moment with him than say Christo Landry (at least at this point in his career).

We don't know the circumstances of his injury or why he came to Atlanta when he may not have been prepared or capable or racing. Likely, organizers/sponsors wanted him there even if he could not finish because of the promotion he brings to expos and local media based on his past performance, not what he was or wasn't capable of. Perhaps he offered not to come because he didn't feel like he could perform but decided since his wife was racing and organizers said to come because of what he brought prior to the event was more valuable than if he won or finished 20th (or DNF).

We've had the privilege of having Ryan come to our business for a day (actually during a family trip, not event or sponsor arranged). He was amazing with those that attended the clinic and incredible with our staff. He was super accommodating, easy going and flexible in dealing with the demands of a visit he did on his own with no compensation.

Yes, it would be nice if he could return to the level he achieved in the past but even if he doesn't he still has so much to offer beyond the ability to run fast. One thing for sure is that his greatest talent is his belief in himself even when the training or results may not point to a great result. And that is what will allow him to perhaps reach the level he did in the past. Yes, to the outsider it may seem deluded to talk about great results when past or current performance indicate otherwise. However, he has seen himself that he can exceed his training/performance in the past and can do it again in the future. Fortunately he doesn't worry about the haters on LRC or he would have likely quit after his frosh year at Stanford.

Fa a wrote:

Ever heard of injuries?

No, I had to look that word up. Sounds like an unfavorable thing for runners.

Fa a wrote:

for some reason Ryan Hall's injuries are a completely different situation and he must be criticized to no end about them.

Yeah, I have no idea what could possibly lead people to think that the injuries that have befallen Ryan Hall (who has not only withdrawn from countless events but has also DNFed or plain jogged it in at various other events where he's taken the organizers' money) are no different than the ones that have struck the others you mentioned (who don't have a history of doing such things). Let me think about it for a while.

Le Foot wrote:

Wow, so dropping out is completely unacceptable, but not even starting the race is perfectly okay? (And no, you can't substitute someone else in.) Really interesting philosophy you have here.

You should not start the race if you are so injured you cannot finish.

This is not a hard concept.

Uno wrote:

I pity you if you don't understand how someone who actually claimed to be trained by God is much more likely to run poorly/get injured then the average elite runner who has a professional coach.

Also, how telling is it that thread titles about Ryan Hall now ask How Far Did Hall Make it Today instead of How Fast Did Hall Run?

Not following all this Latin mumbo jumbo.

I do know, however, that it is "more than".

Than - used for comparisons; "greater than", "worse than"...

Then - used to denote time, sequence of events, logical connections; "then he went out", "when?...then", "if...then" ...

LRC's your welcome.

True, no one can say for certain that Hall's becoming self-coached, except for a brief excursion into taking advice from Canova, and the de facto end of his effective running career are not causally related. It could just be a coincidence. But one *can* say with certainty that Hall deciding to coach himself has not helped him avoid injuries, wildly inconsistent racing, and pretty much everything a professional athlete strives to avoid.

Thanks; had I not known that for at least 30 years, there's no way I could have looked it up in ten or twenty seconds.

This is an incredibly ignorant thing to say. Someone's faith can in fact help him become a better runner -- if someone is convinced that he needs God's maximum approval and has to run his best to attain it, then his faith is helping him, even if God doesn't exist or doesn't care about running if he does. And obviously it can work the other way; if some devout person convinces himself that it's the will of his Lord in Heaven that he run 150 miles a week on a not-quite-healed stress fracture just to prove it's possible, then the results will probably not be good.

You mean just like Ryan Hall always has?

TLW wrote:

Le Foot wrote:

Wow, so dropping out is completely unacceptable, but not even starting the race is perfectly okay? (And no, you can't substitute someone else in.) Really interesting philosophy you have here.

You should not start the race if you are so injured you cannot finish.

This is not a hard concept.

But it does require seeing into the future

The GIGO Gecko wrote:

Fa a wrote:

Ever heard of injuries?

No, I had to look that word up. Sounds like an unfavorable thing for runners.

Fa a wrote:

for some reason Ryan Hall's injuries are a completely different situation and he must be criticized to no end about them.

Yeah, I have no idea what could possibly lead people to think that the injuries that have befallen Ryan Hall (who has not only withdrawn from countless events but has also DNFed or plain jogged it in at various other events where he's taken the organizers' money) are no different than the ones that have struck the others you mentioned (who don't have a history of doing such things). Let me think about it for a while.

Most of those guys listed had just as many if not more DNFs that Hall

Wikipedia this wrote:

Way wrong on the bolded part

Most of those guys listed had just as many if not more DNFs that Hall

Yeah, I guess it looks more shady for a guy whose entire career is on the roads than a track type. Still, what Hall has managed to do lately seems in a league entirely its own. But he's still young enough to rebound, physically and maybe psychologically. Goucher was almost entirely written off before coming back to run 13:10.

+1

I'll always admire Hall for everything he's done. The 2008 Olympic Trials was one of the best races I've ever seen. So many fair weathers out there.

Manchester wrote:

i hate larry rawlson wrote:

The point I'm making is he turned away from science-based coaching and has paid the price.

He's been advised by Renato Canova, Jack Daniels, and a few others, and his wife is coached by Steve Magness. So I am certain there is plenty of scientific influence in his training.

No matter the coach , no matter the science , no matter the faith , all elite athlete bodies have a window of elite performance. Some are better than others on extending it. Hall's decline would make an interesting study what happens or triggers the decline outside of age.

I was at Peachtree and tried to talk to Hall the day before the race and he was a big old dickhead

I completely agree with this. No one bats an eye when Bill Rodgers shows up at local races. It's quite the opposite. I also don't buy the notion that he's taking money out of other "more deserving" athletes. That's all part of the game, you have to have something extra to offer and some capacity for self-promotion.

I think the hate is actually frustration. We want to see him succeed and win something outright since he has/had the talent and potential to mix it up with the top runners in the world. But thinking honestly, the guys he was competing against when he started (his generation) are long gone. He ages, but his competition doesn't.

he insinuate that he help meb win

Ryan Hall skipped nationals to drop out of Peachtree!

Why didn't Hall run at Nationals?

We think he should have, as this would be good for the sport.

This is why track is not popular!

Here is Hall's tweet after the race:

"Had a rough one at Peachtree 10k that prevented me from finishing. But feeling healthy and moving forward. Congrats to everyone that raced!"

So did he drop out due to injury, or just because he was running so poorly?

Sara thought it was his hamstring but she probably was embarrassed to be asked about another Ryan DNF and went with a response that might save him some face.