dy wrote:
You have no idea if that race was a serious performance by Farah or not. He can obviously run much faster if he closed a race in 50 seconds.
The Sports Illustrated article from a while back says his flying 100 time is 11.3. That still puts him at mid-to-high 12.X does it not?
My 800-running friend was around 51/52 and 12.9 so I know it's possible to have a faster average speed in the 400. Even moreso for someone with incredible endurance.
Middle Distance Coach wrote:That's an absurdly idiotic comparison. First, I seriously doubt Cram was considerably slower than Webb over 400m
you're right it is absurd
webb ran 1'43.8/3'46.9 in same shape
his 1'43.8 went out too fast & there is almost a visible shock on his face at the bell
he couda gone mid-1'43 that day with a slightly slower 400, but the race was dictated by the canuck
as for his 3'46.9, he was chasing a relatively weak 3'47.6nr & only had pace requested to threaten that
if the record had been nearer 3'47-flat, he wouda asked for a faster 1/2 & 3/4 & he had enough ability to hang on
the line of fit closest to him that day is ~
47.3 / 1'43.5 -> 2'13.0 , 3'29.2 , 3'46.3
that does tally well with supposed low-47 ability & your right, cram wouda demolished that
And you really expect Webb's 800PR to be better than an 800m specialist who finished 2nd in the WC? If so, your logic is seriously flawed
that doesn't really mean anything
that canuck also won a silver over 800 ( & unlucky not to win gold ) & has a barely faster 800pb than webb
you also forget mo, who is no specialist 1500 guy has a faster pb than any current specialist 1500 guy bar 1
Pretty much 1 per year. That isn't enough to optimize your race time compared to an event that you run a half dozen times.
Hardloper wrote:
adsadfsfas wrote:I would take 1 100m run during a triple as an upper estimate of a guys a max speed. For all we know that into a 4 mph wind. Have him run 4 a year and his 60/200 times suggest he would be a 10.9 to 11.1 guy.
He has several results listed and 11.26 was the fastest (11.66 more recent PR). That was literally the first guy I clicked on. I am certain you could find more 47.x 400 runners who are that slow.
Seb Coe, 4x 400m June 7th 81, Eng v Sco v Italy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FktMJWzpqHg
Seb Coe, England v USA, 4x400, London '81
lol lol lol lol wrote:
Middle Distance Analyst wrote:Alan Webb - 47.3, 3:30
When did Webb run the alleged 47.3???
Webb ran 47.4 for a relay leg in HS.
http://www.usatf.org/athletes/bios/TrackAndFieldArchive/2009/Webb_Alan.aspdsa351 wrote:
This is interesting, but I find Ashton Eaton's 27' LJ/ 4:14.5 1500m combo far more interesting. Is there anyone else who has ever done this or could have?
Rich Froning or any other elite cross fitter.
Jeff Wigand wrote:
Why is this thread still going? It's Coe by a country mile. Find anyone else under 47 and under 3:30.
Alberto's 44.26 is VERY good, a 44.26 is about as good as a 3:30.
lsdlfsj wrote:
Jeff Wigand wrote:Why is this thread still going? It's Coe by a country mile. Find anyone else under 47 and under 3:30.
Alberto's 44.26 is VERY good, a 44.26 is about as good as a 3:30.
Juantorena was a fvckin animal.
letsrun fact checking wrote:
lol lol lol lol wrote:When did Webb run the alleged 47.3???
Webb ran 47.4 for a relay leg in HS.
http://www.usatf.org/athletes/bios/TrackAndFieldArchive/2009/Webb_Alan.asp
Roughly 48-low-mid for an open 400, which makes much more sense.
It's very likely that like Ovett, for example, Webb's basic speed did not improve much if at all after his teen years.
lol lol lol lol wrote:
letsrun fact checking wrote:Webb ran 47.4 for a relay leg in HS.
http://www.usatf.org/athletes/bios/TrackAndFieldArchive/2009/Webb_Alan.aspRoughly 48-low-mid for an open 400, which makes much more sense.
It's very likely that like Ovett, for example, Webb's basic speed did not improve much if at all after his teen years.
Since Ovett ran 21.7 for 200m, he was in a pretty good place.
10.64 100m/ 3:37i 1500m
Just a few thoughts. Cram's Pb from training was 48.1 in summer 85 when at a career peak, and that is a direct quote from the man himself, despite some poster claiming he had 46 low ability. He also ran a 47.6 relay in late 84, which works out around 48.3 for an open run. No doubt he could probably get down to 47 high in a one off quality race on the circuit in 85 or 86.
Elliott apparently ran a 47.6 400 in training in 84. This is a quote from Wilf Paish, his coach at the time. So he was possibly marginally quicker than Cram over 400, but not as good over 1500. Although his 1500 Pb of 3:32 is perhaps not a true reflection of his ability. I would think he was capable of 3:30 in 90, whereas Cram should have been able to run 3:28 in 85.
I believe Webb's "Pb of 47.4" was a relay leg in HS. This equates to around 48.1 in an open race. In the same way that Ovett's 200 & 400 speed did not improve beyond his 21.7 and 47 mid in his late teens, and all indications from 400 relay splits between 77 - 82, suggest that if anything he lost a bit of that speed, I would doubt Webb was any better than a 48 flat guy when he ran his 1:43 high Pb. This is a time that Ovett was more than capable of at his peak.
Symmonds ran a 47 mid 400 (can't recall exact time at present, and not near a computer to check) in the lead up to London, and I'd doubt he was ever better than a 47 flat that year. It is very doubtful he will ever improve his 800 Pb as he was rabitted pretty much all the way, unless he maintains his 47 low 400 speed and improves his 1500 endurance next year.
Cruz is fascinating. He has no particularly impressive performances over 1 lap, but his official web site credits him with training PBS of 10.86, 21.73 and 46.00. The fact they are to the nearest hundredth would seem to imply they were FATimes. His best 1500 was only 3:34.63. His endurance didn't last much beyond 800. His 1000m Pb was an attempt on the WR a few weeks after his LA victory and he fell short with 2:14.09. Granted he never made another serious attempt at the event.
Kipketer had a weak 1500 Pb of 3:42, although I doubt he couldn't have run quite a bit quicker at his best in the right race. A 3:35 - 3:37 seems very plausible. Although his official 400 Pb was almost identical to Coe's with 46.85, he must have been at least as good as Cruz's 46 flat best. Indeed, a week or so before his 1st WR in 97, he ran a 45.4 relay leg for Denmark in the European Cup. That would imply about 46.1 for 400m. This has to be towards the slower end of his 400 ability at this time. I have trouble believing he couldn't have run sub 46 for an open 400 in 97.
Like Cruz, Coe has run a 21.7 for 200 in 81 and several sub 46 400 relay legs. His 45.6 in early 81 after front running a 1:44.0 ninety minutes earlier, was with a stumble ( someone else posted the link on this thread) and was worth at the very least 46 flat.
That year he also ran a solo 3:31 and a 3:47 mile. He believed that he would have run 3:28 in the former race with better pacing to 800.
I think there would have been little difference between Cruz 84, Coe 81 and Kipketer 97, over 200 or 400m as the evidence suggests. We also know that Coe was better over 1000m and significantly better over 1500m. Which makes me wonder how much faster Coe could have run 800 in 81 had he had some serious attempts at his own record.
Of course this is conjecture, but in reality nonetheless, Coe is the only man who has run a 46 and a 3:29, some 30 years ago.
Buddy, even I know that stuff is losing its novelty through the redundancy of the repetition. Sure, I love pie, but not everyone wants to know.
pie maniac wrote:
I LIKE PIE!!!
Webb injured himself in that 1:43.8 800m, beating Gary Reed, but harming his shot at WC gold the next month. (He was also sick before WC finals). It might have been faster without that injury and the look on his face from the quick start might have been that he knew he'd strained his hammy already. He dropped two seconds off his pr in that one race. You know that he had more in the tank if he'd remained healthy the next few years.
lol lol lol lol wrote:
Aouita, to the best of my knowledge, never ran that claimed 46.9 in an actual race. Where that comes from, I have no idea...
That "alleged" 46.9 was listed as a "training" run in 1981, along with 22.8 for 200m. Considering his 'official' pb for 800m was 1:47.8 from 1980 and he only managed 1:48,26 in 81, that 400 tt has to be questioned.